A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Jerusalem: Gaza/Israel conflict

[Moliere]

Not too jazzed about becoming the hamas shill here, but the decapitated babies story may be problematic, according to a reporter who initially reported it:

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there were still atrocities aplenty, just maybe not end-of-BOM level.

Well that changes everything. They just killed the babies. They didn’t behead them. It’s kind of like just killing someone isn’t as bad as killing them and then raping their dead body.

[Bo Diddley]

palestinians, who not only elected hamas to govern but continue to overwhelmingly support its ideology and actions

This is the heart of the problem and why the status quo in the Gaza Strip has to be changed.

[fusnik]

Well that changes everything. They just killed the babies. They didn’t behead them. It’s kind of like just killing someone isn’t as bad as killing them and then raping their dead body.

It does change the calculus.

When you are beheading babies it gives a country, that just missed a horrific terrorist attack probs in large part because they are being governed by clowns, the green light to carpet bomb and kill the babies of the offensive.

It turned out it was propaganda. Propaganda that I’ve heard repeated from every adult I’ve interacted with for over 5 mins this week and that will never truly be repudiated. Propaganda that allows rational folks to say, hey, moving over a million people down the road and giving them 24 hours to navigate bombed out streets and resistance from their own government, is reasonable.

Honestly I wouldn’t mind an occupied Gaza. Don’t know if the IDF or the populace of Israel has the appetite for that. Maybe cut Gaza up into 3 or 4 districts, integrate Gaza into the rest of Israel, grant the survivors a chance at citizenship after an occupied period of time.

[USUC]

It does change the calculus.

When you are beheading babies it gives a country, that just missed a horrific terrorist attack probs in large part because they are being governed by clowns, the green light to carpet bomb and kill the babies of the offensive.

It turned out it was propaganda. Propaganda that I’ve heard repeated from every adult I’ve interacted with for over 5 mins this week and that will never truly be repudiated. Propaganda that allows rational folks to say, hey, moving over a million people down the road and giving them 24 hours to navigate bombed out streets and resistance from their own government, is reasonable.

Honestly I wouldn’t mind an occupied Gaza. Don’t know if the IDF or the populace of Israel has the appetite for that. Maybe cut Gaza up into 3 or 4 districts, integrate Gaza into the rest of Israel, grant the survivors a chance at citizenship after an occupied period of time.

I don't get this point of distinction. The fear is that if the babies were beheaded it gives the Israelis justification to carpet bomb where if the babies were simply burned alive it doesn't?

[fusnik]

I don't get this point of distinction. The fear is that if the babies were beheaded it gives the Israelis justification to carpet bomb where if the babies were simply burned alive it doesn't?

Is this a real question?

In wars/conflicts we as humans have been conditioned to accept that a certain number of innocents will be collateral damage and that women will be raped and that kids will be kidnapped. We probably all have a family member that participated in a war that committed absolute atrocities.

Chopping off the heads of babies is something so barbaric and outside the accepted ‘norm’ that it hits the brain different.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Is this a real question?

In wars/conflicts we as humans have been conditioned to accept that a certain number of innocents will be collateral damage and that women will be raped and that kids will be kidnapped. We probably all have a family member that participated in a war that committed absolute atrocities.

Chopping off the heads of babies is something so barbaric and outside the accepted ‘norm’ that it hits the brain different.

I suppose it does, but so what? As unspeakably horrific as a baby beheading is, having a daughter savagely raped, burned, or maimed unto death seems much worse. I just listened to an interview with a young Israeli father whose daughter was thought to have been kidnapped, along with other girls, from a slumber party at another girl's home. Through sobs, he said he rejoiced when he learned she had been killed instantly. Collateral damage is a terrible thing, but intentionally targeting children reaches the nadir in any combat.

[Moliere]

It does change the calculus.

When you are beheading babies it gives a country, that just missed a horrific terrorist attack probs in large part because they are being governed by clowns, the green light to carpet bomb and kill the babies of the offensive.

It turned out it was propaganda. Propaganda that I’ve heard repeated from every adult I’ve interacted with for over 5 mins this week and that will never truly be repudiated. Propaganda that allows rational folks to say, hey, moving over a million people down the road and giving them 24 hours to navigate bombed out streets and resistance from their own government, is reasonable.

Honestly I wouldn’t mind an occupied Gaza. Don’t know if the IDF or the populace of Israel has the appetite for that. Maybe cut Gaza up into 3 or 4 districts, integrate Gaza into the rest of Israel, grant the survivors a chance at citizenship after an occupied period of time.

Just missed a horrific terrorist attack?

Was the whole thing a propaganda? Weren’t over 1,000 Israeli citizens killed. Seems like the horrific terrorist attack ahppened.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It does change the calculus.

When you are beheading babies it gives a country, that just missed a horrific terrorist attack probs in large part because they are being governed by clowns, the green light to carpet bomb and kill the babies of the offensive.

It turned out it was propaganda. Propaganda that I’ve heard repeated from every adult I’ve interacted with for over 5 mins this week and that will never truly be repudiated. Propaganda that allows rational folks to say, hey, moving over a million people down the road and giving them 24 hours to navigate bombed out streets and resistance from their own government, is reasonable.

Honestly I wouldn’t mind an occupied Gaza. Don’t know if the IDF or the populace of Israel has the appetite for that. Maybe cut Gaza up into 3 or 4 districts, integrate Gaza into the rest of Israel, grant the survivors a chance at citizenship after an occupied period of time.

You can't possibly be serious. Israel's response would (and should?) be different if it turns out those babies were only machine-gunned? That is the craziest thing in this thread.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Is this a real question?

In wars/conflicts we as humans have been conditioned to accept that a certain number of innocents will be collateral damage and that women will be raped and that kids will be kidnapped. We probably all have a family member that participated in a war that committed absolute atrocities.

Chopping off the heads of babies is something so barbaric and outside the accepted ‘norm’ that it hits the brain different.

This is the second craziest thing in the thread. Collateral damage? gtfo. Murdering, raping, and kidnapping civilians was the whole point of the invasion.

[Maximus]

Just missed a horrific terrorist attack?

Was the whole thing a propaganda? Weren’t over 1,000 Israeli citizens killed. Seems like the horrific terrorist attack ahppened.

They missed the signs because bibi is incompetent

[Northwestcoug]

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[fusnik]

You can't possibly be serious. Israel's response would (and should?) be different if it turns out those babies were only machine-gunned? That is the craziest thing in this thread.

You are nuts if you think that a baby getting shot during an attack isn’t wildly different than capturing a baby and chopping its head off. Is the end result the same? Of course, is the act wildly different? Absolutely.

The barbarism of the first is horrific, the demonic nature of the second is incomprehensible. I’ll restate again, I believe it’s a huge part of the bloodlust that is so prevalent.

This is the second craziest thing in the thread. Collateral damage? gtfo. Murdering, raping, and kidnapping civilians was the whole point of the invasion.

Reread what I posted, or go read a book about any armed conflict like ever in the history of man. Innocents are murdered, women are raped, kids are stolen, we as humans accept this will happen. One could argue it’s a primary driver behind any conflict, the absolute control over another human populace and what that fully entails.

I’ll ask again, why the bloodlust and why now? As a contemporary comp although I accept it’s not a perfect, Putin has murdered thousands of innocents, his army has killed 100k soldiers, they’ve kidnapped thousands of people and thousands of Ukrainian women have and will continue to be tortured and raped. Is he much different to a Ukrainian than a Hamas fighter to an Israeli? Where’s the call for the destruction of the Russian government and its officials?

[Bo Diddley]

FTR, I call for the destruction of the Russian government and its officials.

[Omaha 680]

You are nuts if you think that a baby getting shot during an attack isn’t wildly different than capturing a baby and chopping its head off. Is the end result the same? Of course, is the act wildly different? Absolutely.

The barbarism of the first is horrific, the demonic nature of the second is incomprehensible. I’ll restate again, I believe it’s a huge part of the bloodlust that is so prevalent.



Reread what I posted, or go read a book about any armed conflict like ever in the history of man. Innocents are murdered, women are raped, kids are stolen, we as humans accept this will happen. One could argue it’s a primary driver behind any conflict, the absolute control over another human populace and what that fully entails.

I’ll ask again, why the bloodlust and why now? As a contemporary comp although I accept it’s not a perfect, Putin has murdered thousands of innocents, his army has killed 100k soldiers, they’ve kidnapped thousands of people and thousands of Ukrainian women have and will continue to be tortured and raped. Is he much different to a Ukrainian than a Hamas fighter to an Israeli? Where’s the call for the destruction of the Russian government and its officials?

"A baby getting shot during an attack"? How about babies being attacked as the primary target? Or more likely executed after a house was captured? The way you speak about the hamas attack is as if it was a military operation and civilians got caught up in the crossfire. With this alternate reality I can see how you arrive at moral equivalence between dead Israeli civilians and the dead Gazan civilians due to the coming Israeli invasion.

As far as the reason why the world isn't calling for immediate destruction of the Putin regime, I don't think this is a serious question as you are much smarter than that. While morality often screams for intervention, global/national interests and reality obviously have to be considered. If Putin could be toppled by the west without risking world War 3 or a breakup of the Russian federation which still has thousands of nuclear warheads, he would have been dead months ago. But we have to deal in reality. Saying we should topple putin to be consistent is as crazy as your gaza peace plan above which includes incorporation of gaza into Israel and potential israeli ctizenship for gazans.

[BlueK]

I think this piece makes some interesting observations of what Israel is doing and why and parallels to the war with Hezbollah in 2006.

https://dnyuz.com/2023/10/14/why-isr...ting-this-way/