2024 Presidential Election Thread

[falafel]

Speaking of dumb moderators. The woman "corrected" trump by saying that there are no states where abortion is legal in the 9th month. That is a lie.

How big of a lie? As big a lie as some states like West Virginia will let you give birth to the baby before you decide whether to abort it?

[falafel]

lol

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The Trump boys are very uncomfortable with silence.

[myboynoah]

Speaking of dumb moderators. The woman "corrected" trump by saying that there are no states where abortion is legal in the 9th month. That is a lie.

Didn't she correct him by saying that there is no state where it is legal to kill a baby after it is born? She did do that fact check. Not sure about the 9th month abortion fact check.

[myboynoah]

How big of a lie? As big a lie as some states like West Virginia will let you give birth to the baby before you decide whether to abort it?

That was something said by Virginia Governor Markham in 2019. This is a review of that statement.

He was speculating on what might happen if a mother requested an abortion while giving birth to a severely deformed fetus that would not be viable. A very gruesome speculation and clinical answer, but it obviously was or is not a policy or law.

[Jeff Lebowski]

How big of a lie? As big a lie as some states like West Virginia will let you give birth to the baby before you decide whether to abort it?

Not much of a lie. See video below. Basically, he describes a scenario where a late term abortion is performed and the baby is delivered while alive and then is "kept comfortable" while the mother and doctor decide whether or not to end its life.

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[USUC]

Debates really are ridiculous. The format is outdated, leave no room for nuance and they give way too much power to a third party. If we insist on the current format, it needs to be modified. Like have an off-camera panel of bi/nonpartisan fact checkers that must unanimously agree. If a statement is shown to be a lie then the candidates podium drops down six inches. If they lie a lot then by the end of the debate they have to sit on the floor to access their mic.

I think a way better format would be for the two candidates to agree do to three long form podcasts with no time limit, but a minimum of two hours. Each candidate would get to pick one host and the third would be someone from a news organization. No audience, minders, or any of the theater. Just the two candidates having a conversation in between betterhelpnow and athletic greens ads.

Two moderators. One conservative, one liberal.

[falafel]

Not much of a lie. See video below. Basically, he describes a scenario where a late term abortion is performed and the baby is delivered while alive and then is "kept comfortable" while the mother and doctor decide whether or not to end its life.

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So it IS or it IS NOT a real law in the United States of America today?

[myboynoah]

So it IS or it IS NOT a real law in the United States of America today?

No, there is no law that allows a healthy baby that is born to be killed. That would be murder. There are laws against that.

From the article I linked above.

Abortions later in pregnancy are incredibly rare. In 2021, approximately 93% of abortions in the U.S. occurred at or before 13 weeks’ gestation, while only 0.9% occurred at 21 weeks or later, according to the latest available data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Nearly 45% were at or before six weeks gestation.

Experts told the AP that it is not physically possible to perform an abortion later in pregnancy if a woman has already gone into labor naturally.

“Patients who are laboring at term are never having an abortion,” said Sarah Prager, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Washington. “They are having a delivery.”

Parents whose babies are born with a low probability of survival then make decisions about whether to provide palliative care or to take extraordinary measures to save them.

Only six states — Oregon, Colorado, New Mexico, New Jersey, Vermont and Maine — have no restrictions on when abortion can occur during a pregnancy.

Experts say that there is technically no legal mechanism in these states to stop physicians from performing an abortion on a healthy, full-term pregnancy. However, they explained that because it is difficult to craft policies that cover every situation in which a woman might need an abortion, this flexibility allows physicians and patients to make decisions on a case-by-case basis.

There are many reasons patients might seek an abortion later in pregnancy, including a catastrophic fetal diagnosis and risks to their own health.

Amy Nelson, an OB-GYN in Virginia, said that it is unlikely any ethical doctor would agree to perform an abortion simply because a woman changed her mind about an entirely healthy pregnancy late in the game, even if it is legally permissible.

“Ethics would get involved more than anything else,” she explained.

Even in states with few to no restrictions on abortions, there are other mechanisms to ensure appropriate decisions are made.

“The truth is that all physicians in the United States are bound by medical ethics and standards, state law, federal law, and the bylaws of their professional medical associations,” said Jamila Perritt, an OB-GYN in Washington, D.C. and the president and CEO of the advocacy organization Physicians for Reproductive Health.

Kristyn Brandi, an OB-GYN in New Jersey who provides abortions later in pregnancy, said that she “not worried about not having a limit because I know that I trust my patients to make decisions that are best for them.” She added that she has never met anyone “who just kind of woke up one day and decided that they didn’t want to be pregnant.”

[Jeff Lebowski]

No, there is no law that allows a healthy baby that is born to be killed. That would be murder. There are laws against that.

From the article I linked above.

From your quotes:

Amy Nelson, an OB-GYN in Virginia, said that it is unlikely any ethical doctor would agree to perform an abortion simply because a woman changed her mind about an entirely healthy pregnancy late in the game, even if it is legally permissible.

“Ethics would get involved more than anything else,” she explained.

So now we are just relying on "ethics"? Good luck with that.

The Atlantic found a doctor that has performed many late-term (9th month) abortions and most of them were healthy babies.

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[YOhio]

From your quotes:



So now we are just relying on "ethics"? Good luck with that.

The Atlantic found a doctor that has performed many late-term (9th month) abortions and most of them were healthy babies.

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Dems don't get enough credit for being absolute ghouls about abortion. It's not an issue that's super important to me, but the zero value they place on a life in utero is horrific.

[myboynoah]

From your quotes:



So now we are just relying on "ethics"? Good luck with that.

The Atlantic found a doctor that has performed many late-term (9th month) abortions and most of them were healthy babies.

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I was referring to a baby that was born, and then somehow the parents decided they didn't want it so they "aborted" it. When I listen to Trump, I hear him suggesting that is done in America. That would be murder.

I can't read that article, but I obviously noted there are states with no restrictions on when an abortion can be done during pregnancy. The "ethics" note made me queasy as well.

[myboynoah]

Dems don't get enough credit for being absolute ghouls about abortion. It's not an issue that's super important to me, but the zero value they place on a life in utero is horrific.

Some on the Pro Choice side can be very ghoulish. It's sick.

[fusnik]

Dems don't get enough credit for being absolute ghouls about abortion. It's not an issue that's super important to me, but the zero value they place on a life in utero is horrific.

You guys say stupid shit like this and get away with it because in your real life you don’t interact with Dems and nobody checks you on your ridiculous suppositions.

Go read a poll on what Americans think about abortion and after go read the handbook of the church’s view on abortion. The average Democrat is a lot closer to the church’s view on abortion than the folks pining for nationwide bans after inception.

65% of Americans want abortion, this isn’t a dem/repub issue.

[Northwestcoug]

From your quotes:



So now we are just relying on "ethics"? Good luck with that.

The Atlantic found a doctor that has performed many late-term (9th month) abortions and most of them were healthy babies.

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Though that is true, there is some nuance to that. From the article:

Abortions that come after devastating medical diagnoses can be easier for some people to understand. But Hern estimates that at least half, and sometimes more, of the women who come to the clinic do not have these diagnoses. He and his staff are just as sympathetic to other circumstances. Many of the clinic’s teenage patients receive later abortions because they had no idea they were pregnant. Some sexual-assault victims ignore their pregnancies or feel too ashamed to see a doctor. Once, a staffer named Catherine told me, a patient opted for a later abortion because her husband had killed himself and she was suddenly broke. “There isn’t a single woman who has ever written on her bucket list that she wants to have a late abortion,” Catherine said. “There is always a reason.”

If we're going to use the term 'healthy babies' in the abortion debate, then I would guess the majority of all abortions performed are done on 'healthy babies', since >90% of them are done in the first trimester. And most of those do not have significant pathology.

[wally]

From your quotes:



So now we are just relying on "ethics"? Good luck with that.

The Atlantic found a doctor that has performed many late-term (9th month) abortions and most of them were healthy babies.

Weren't these referred to as "partial-birth abortions" in the past? That was the only thing i could think of when Trump kept referring to "post-birth abortions."

Pretty disgusting stuff. I would rather eat someone's dog or cat than read about these abortions.