"Hold my root beer" - the Russell M. Nelson thread

[tooblue]

The church's official position is that God willed it.

It could be argued that everything that happens in this life is according to Gods will. But since you have brought up the church’s position on this it also can be argued everything that happens in this life is also according your (along with mine and everyone else’s) will. Because you (or we all) voted in favour of mortality and the ‘dance’ of personal agency.

So, in a sense, it is more a condition of your (everyone’s) will than it is God’s will. This is, according to the church’s position, a situation of our own making both premortaly and mortally.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have no concerns with old, straight, conservative white dudes making changes. My concern is when they state the changes were made by direct divine guidance, yea, even the Will of the Lord, and then they walk them back.

Interesting response. Do you think once they say that, they should never be allowed to change their mind in the future? If that were true, we would still be practicing polygamy.

Revelation is a process involving God and humans. Regardless of what you believe about God, humans are fallible. And if you agree with that, you can't make exceptions. Someone may genuinely believe they are doing God's will, but be wrong. It happens. Revelation is a messy process. Nevertheless it can be beautiful and life-changing.

[clackamascoug]

In your universe WTF does it even matter what I do in this dimension?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

That's the whole point Brother Omaha 680.... consider this...

The purpose of our existence is the accumulation of knowledge and experience - partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The reason the tree is the symbol of the theory is the multitude of branches which sprout from each other and little leaves are sprouted where they live and die. The tree of life.... all are symbols depicting our lives analogized in the tree metaphor. In my Father house are many mansions.... back to my point. The purpose of our lives is not to live perfectly - but to perfectly partake of all the experiences that the tree of life has to offer, and then to convert those experiences into knowledge where we become omnipotent - like God - because we've lived out the consequences of every conceivable possibility that are concurrent dimensional lives can offer. Thus we partake of the fruit of that tree - and become like the gods - knowing good from evil.

In a singular dimension we keep thinking our life is about following that proverbial "carrot on a stick" called the celestial kingdom - and if we can only run faster and better than the person next to us we can pass through the guards and sentinels proclaiming "I made it - I'm such a good person!" Pardon the pun - but that mindset is so single minded, and non-introspective of the bigger picture.

Our life isn't to "prove ourselves worthy." Our "lives" (plural) are to teach us and prepare us for the next iteration of our eternal existence - and a vast treasure trove of "good and evil" experiences prepares us more fully, than a smaller sample of singularly "good" experiences. Omnipotence is the goal - and what is omnipotence... if not everything the good the bad and the ugly. You become wise by experience, and God's plan is for us to be like Him. But - he put a veil over our minds and made us "forget" the tree of life plan A, and sent us down into the mystery fog to learn the hard way through the linear concept of "what I do really matters."

How can any religion teach this concept - NEVER! If everybody knew that nothing really mattered - there'd be anarchy amongst the children of men.

In case you guys haven't noticed - it's taking a toll on me too. I used to be a brown/white shirter who once tracted 55 hours a week because the other missionaries I knew were only tracting 48 hours. If I can only be better than those good missionaries - I'll be a favorite son of god. If I would have been asked to whip myself at night - I'd have done that too. Now I sit in the dark and write weird things on the internet. But what I've really lost - is my modicum of happiness from being sane.


Freddy Mercury said it best - and ended the song with a gong. (Any way the wind blows......)

[smokymountainrain]

Yes but he asked my opinion.

And I'm still not quite sure what you opinion is.

[CardiacCoug]

It’s a wise person who admits he was wrong and/or made a mistake and changes his mind rather than doubling down on something that was incorrect for the sake of “consistency.” I think changing the policy is awesome and a sign that truly good and humble people are at the helm.

The quote that comes to mind is from Ralph Waldo Emerson:

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.

[Moliere]

Interesting response. Do you think once they say that, they should never be allowed to change their mind in the future? If that were true, we would still be practicing polygamy.

Revelation is a process involving God and humans. Regardless of what you believe about God, humans are fallible. And if you agree with that, you can't make exceptions. Someone may genuinely believe they are doing God's will, but be wrong. It happens. Revelation is a messy process. Nevertheless it can be beautiful and life-changing.

I don’t disagree and no one is saying they can’t change their mind. Thankfully the doctrine of polygamy and the doctrine of the priesthood ban were changed. But they weren’t changed after only being implemented for three years. Sure, the time frame isn’t the most important point, but as a human and given my limited perspective, I’m really confused on how adamant they were about this policy being revealed to the entire FP and Q12 only to have it completely rescinded three years later. This isn’t some pilot project or manual, but a divine policy.

Now, if you can’t understand or at least begin to appreciate how this could confuse someone, then I don’t know what to say.

[CardiacCoug]

I’m sorry but being flustered or confused about this policy being reversed so quickly would only happen to somebody who is weirdly superstitious and literal about what “revelation” really is and how decisions in the church are made.

[Northwestcoug]

I’m sorry but being flustered or confused about this policy being reversed so quickly would only happen to somebody who is weirdly superstitious and literal about what “revelation” really is and how decisions in the church are made.

Lol. Cardiac doesn’t disappoint.

[creekster]

I’m sorry but being flustered or confused about this policy being reversed so quickly would only happen to somebody who is weirdly superstitious and literal about what “revelation” really is and how decisions in the church are made.

Its not exactly how I would express it, but I agree.

[Northwestcoug]

Its not exactly how I would express it, but I agree.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but your version allows for a lot more of a divine being than Cardiac’s.

[creekster]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but your version allows for a lot more of a divine being than Cardiac’s.

Maybe, but that's not what I meant. I just wouldn't use the word superstitious. otherwise, I'm good.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don’t disagree and no one is saying they can’t change their mind. Thankfully the doctrine of polygamy and the doctrine of the priesthood ban were changed. But they weren’t changed after only being implemented for three years. Sure, the time frame isn’t the most important point, but as a human and given my limited perspective, I’m really confused on how adamant they were about this policy being revealed to the entire FP and Q12 only to have it completely rescinded three years later. This isn’t some pilot project or manual, but a divine policy.

Now, if you can’t understand or at least begin to appreciate how this could confuse someone, then I don’t know what to say.

I don’t see how the time issue changes my point.

You are overstating the revelation angle. I read every word of the announcement of the policy change and watched every minute of the subsequent broadcast where Elder Christofferson explained it. It certainly was not presented as a revelation. Some time later then elder Nelson made some comments to that effect but to say that this was generally promoted as a revelation is disingenuous.

Oh I certainly understand that line of thinking. I just think it is an oversimplistic and non-sustainable way to approach religion.

[old_gregg]

non-sustainable way to approach religion.

something has to give, as they say

[CardiacCoug]

Was this policy even followed at the local level?

We definitely baptized a kid with a dad, a mom, and two stepdads in our ward after the policy.

Doesn’t seem reasonable to ask a ward to police the issue anyway.

[myboynoah]

Was this policy even followed at the local level?

We definitely baptized a kid with a dad, a mom, and two stepdads in our ward after the policy.

Doesn’t seem reasonable to ask a ward to police the issue anyway.

I agree.

I remember trying to read the new policy and getting confused/bored by it all.