The June 1

[Omaha 680]

On the other hand, why would her bishop lie in a formal document he sent to her knowing that everything he does in this whole ordeal is going to be immediately sent to the press? It's an odd he said/she said for sure. This is where I've felt all along that she could benefit from some PR advice of some kind. All these interviews she's done and apperances etc...hard to keep everything you say and how you say it straight.

Maybe they both need better executive secretaries.

[Applejack]

So they excommunicate her because she agitated to change a policy. Even Scratch over on UB5, LAUte's alter ego, says that there's no doctrine that keeps the priesthood from women and they can change it and save face. Dehlin, however, has been questioning every fundamental of Mormon belief. And they don't excommunicate him. I think they did her and not him because they're sexist. Deep down they hate women and certainly they don't want to share power with women.

SU hits on something absolutely fundamental here, even if you disagree with him. If the church doesn't ex Dehlin, it comes off looking really bad. Even though there are good reasons to distinguish the two cases (as ERCougar notes), to a casual, non-mormon observer, an all-male disciplinary board kicking out the woman but not the man seems blatantly sexist. The Salon headlines write themselves: "All-male LDS leadership ex-communicates female activist, spares male counterpart"

[ERCougar]

On the other hand, why would her bishop lie in a formal document he sent to her knowing that everything he does in this whole ordeal is going to be immediately sent to the press? It's an odd he said/she said for sure. This is where I've felt all along that she could benefit from some PR advice of some kind. All these interviews she's done and apperances etc...hard to keep everything you say and how you say it straight.

That's exactly why he would lie--he's now facing the question "why didn't you say something earlier??", from both sides, in a situation that I think he likely felt outside pressure to become involved in anyway.

No one really knows, of course. Like you say, it's a strange point of contention.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So they excommunicate her because she agitated to change a policy. Even Scratch over on UB5, LAUte's alter ego, says that there's no doctrine that keeps the priesthood from women and they can change it and save face. Dehlin, however, has been questioning every fundamental of Mormon belief. And they don't excommunicate him. I think they did her and not him because they're sexist. Deep down they hate women and certainly they don't want to share power with women.

Dehlin's case was postponed by his SP so no decision has been reached yet. I think the case against Dehlin is much weaker.

[SoonerCoug]

Dehlin's case was postponed by his SP so no decision has been reached yet. I think the case against Dehlin is much weaker.

Kate Kelly has never questioned fundamental truth claims. Dehlin has. Dehlin fits the definition of an apostate much better than Kate Kelly. In any case, the Church will look terrible no matter what they do with Dehlin.

[kccougar]

Why exactly do you think she is unstable?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Basically, the more she talks, the worse she looks.

She keeps going on and on about how hurtful it is to have this "private and personal" matter out there for everyone to see. Really?

That serial abuser line that she keeps coming back to now is not playing well with anyone except her most "violent" supporters.

While I admit it was a cute touch that she immediately started rocking the sleeveless look after she was told not to wear her garments anymore, it was the first thing many women I know noticed with post-ex Kate. Again, she probably got a high five from the FMH, but it's not playing well with the "moderates."

That garbage about being the smartest, having the most friends, and having the most reporters interested in you just doesn't strike chords with anyone.

I'm just saying that the OW movement is going to need a new spokesperson if they want to maintain or extend inroads with the more moderate demographic. Obviously, that was the whole point of her excommunication from the Church's view. Strip her of credibility that comes from being one of the flock. I'm just acknowledging that it is working and she's not doing anything but helping.

[SoonerCoug]

Basically, the more she talks, the worse she looks.

She keeps going on and on about how hurtful it is to have this "private and personal" matter out there for everyone to see. Really?

That serial abuser line that she keeps coming back to now is not playing well with anyone except her most "violent" supporters.

While I admit it was a cute touch that she immediately started rocking the sleeveless look after she was told not to wear her garments anymore, it was the first thing many women I know noticed with post-ex Kate. Again, she probably got a high five from the FMH, but it's not playing well with the "moderates."

That garbage about being the smartest, having the most friends, and having the most reporters interested in you just doesn't strike chords with anyone.

I'm just saying that the OW movement is going to need a new spokesperson if they want to maintain or extend inroads with the more moderate demographic. Obviously, that was the whole point of her excommunication from the Church's view. Strip her of credibility that comes from being one of the flock. I'm just acknowledging that it is working and she's not doing anything but helping.

Yes. Let's bash the excommunicated Mormon woman over not having sleeves. That's not sexist at all.

[Commando]

So you believe she wouldn't make something up like that but a specific response based on dates and multiple people who were there who could corroborate is something that someone would just "make up"?

Her credibility is further damaged by the fact that she continually whined about not being able to be present at her court of love. How she was being tried in absetntia, how inconvenient it was for her to have to travel across the country at her own expense (even though others offered to pay her way), and that she has a sick family member who she needs to be there for (again ignoring the fact that she is moving to Africa and that this family member is either going to be completely better by then or this was just another convenient excuse). Never did she mention that it was offered to move the council to a later date to more suit her schedule or the fact that she was offered to be skyped in. Clearly her whining about this and the issue regarding never having met with her Bishop were done to place him in the worst light possible.

She has damaged the church's reputation for sure, but she also comes away smelling pretty bad herself.

She obviously knew she was in trouble since she tried to sidestep discipline by not attending the meeting, rather going to one of the several vigils held in her honor during the proceedings. However, she claims her frustration is that she feels so strongly that she is right, and she has so many people that support her, but that the Church still has the power- why is that frustrating or surprising? She also says that she felt 100% without a doubt she was going to be let into the Priesthood session at conference; and that she was the only one in her entourage that felt that way. She's not acting like the savvy, calculating activist many are holding her up to be, but rather genuinely surprised and dismayed at the discipline that she knew was coming; something's not right here.

[TripletDaddy]

Kate has gone sleeveless? That isn't going to look good. #sjbh

[Green Monstah]

On the other hand, why would her bishop lie in a formal document he sent to her knowing that everything he does in this whole ordeal is going to be immediately sent to the press? It's an odd he said/she said for sure. This is where I've felt all along that she could benefit from some PR advice of some kind. All these interviews she's done and apperances etc...hard to keep everything you say and how you say it straight.

I'm inclined to believe the bishop is not lying, but the fact that it is going to the press is probably a good reason to lay out the most favorable version of the facts. Shoot, if the Church uses deceptive language in its press releases, why wouldn't the bishop do the same? If videoconferencing was an option, I think that's poor form on Kelly's part.

[creekster]

Yes. Let's bash the excommunicated Mormon woman over not having sleeves. That's not sexist at all.

You're obviously smart enough to know that's not what he was doing. You're being very disingenuous and you know it.

[kccougar]

Yes. Let's bash the excommunicated Mormon woman over not having sleeves. That's not sexist at all.

I'm not making a judgement on that. I'm saying that if the idea is to change the hearts and minds of people inside the church, it's probably not the best idea to throw up obvious and unnecessary roadblocks from the beginning.

[kccougar]

Kate has gone sleeveless? That isn't going to look good. #sjbh

Must have been a whirlwind shopping trip to find a new wardrobe between the time she got the notice and her first sit down with the TV cameras.

[SoonerCoug]

No matter what you think of Kate Kelly's statements or whether she is wearing sleeves or not (which is obviously a vital point brought up by KC), the fact remains that the Church is a patriarchal, sexist organization. Kate Kelly deserves credit for being brave enough to say it vocally in a church where dissenters are excommunicated by kangaroo courts.

[Green Monstah]

Must have been a whirlwind shopping trip to find a new wardrobe between the time she got the notice and her first sit down with the TV cameras.

I'm inclined to believe that Kate is like most Mormon women--a few garment unfriendly shirts in the closet for (a) vacationing at the beach, or (b) those days that are so damn hot, you'll do just about anything to get rid of that bulky under-layer.