The June 1

[MartyFunkhouser]

If the OW want to keep themselves positioned as women working from within the framework of the gospel they are going to need to start distancing themselves from Kate Kelly pretty quickly. I don't think she's stable enough to maintain the front.

Why exactly do you think she is unstable?

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[SoonerCoug]

If the OW want to keep themselves positioned as women working from within the framework of the gospel they are going to need to start distancing themselves from Kate Kelly pretty quickly. I don't think she's stable enough to maintain the front.

And how exactly does a person effect change within the "framework of the gospel?"

How do you define the "framework of the gospel?" I'm not even sure what that means.

Are you saying that she should pray privately for women to be ordained and just hope it happens?

I hope you realize that every time the Church has made some sort of progress on social issues, the church was DRAGGED kicking and screaming (elimination of polygamy, granting priesthood to black men, and so on).

The Church does not lead in terms of equality and human rights. Instead, the Church plays a never ending game of catch up. Is that what the "framework of the gospel" is about? Letting the rest of society show the church how to treat minorities and women?

[SoonerCoug]

I was just blocked by the LDS Church's official twitter account. Is that the same as being excommunicated?

On the bright side, Sunstone likes me.

[Tex]

1993: 6 exed
2014: 2 exed
average # of exes each year: No idea, so put vague range of numbers here

I suppose y'all are missing that I'm making fun of the Times, but I FIFY all the same.

[creekster]

I was just blocked by the LDS Church's official twitter account. Is that the same as being excommunicated?

On the bright side, Sunstone likes me.

It is God's way of saying You need a new hobby.

[TripletDaddy]

I suppose y'all are missing that I'm making fun of the Times, but I FIFY all the same.

you aren't funny so it is highly probable that everyone is missing your joke. heh.

[eldiente]

I was just blocked by the LDS Church's official twitter account. Is that the same as being excommunicated?

On the bright side, Sunstone likes me.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojjdp/193409/page3.html

[Moliere]

Why exactly do you think she is unstable?

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Maybe she has dementia. I mean, she apparently forgot several meetings she had with the bishop.

[CardiacCoug]

Maybe she has dementia. I mean, she apparently forgot several meetings she had with the bishop.

She is pretty adamant that her bishop is absolutely lying when he says they had those meetings.

[ERCougar]

She is pretty adamant that her bishop is absolutely lying when he says they had those meetings.

I obviously am biased here, but I believe her.
Here's why: if they had really met, why would she bring it up, and then so specifically? It wasn't particularly central to her point (although certainly damning), he was sure to deny it, and it would just make her look like she was lying. In short, it's distracting, and such a strange thing to just fabricate. Putting myself in her shoes, I can't imagine just making something up like that.

[ERCougar]

I'm really curious what happens with Dehlin. I think the six discussions that OW put together loomed large in her court of love, and I can at least see some logic behind calling that a recruiting effort in opposition to the church. Dehlin really has made no similar gesture and in fact, staylds.com would seem to counter any similar accusation. The local MS groups, if he hadn't completely withdrawn himself from them, might have been problematic. I'm not sure what other grounds there would be.

[Uncle Ted]

I'm really curious what happens with Dehlin. I think the six discussions that OW put together loomed large in her court of love, and I can at least see some logic behind calling that a recruiting effort in opposition to the church. Dehlin really has made no similar gesture and in fact, staylds.com would seem to counter any similar accusation. The local MS groups, if he hadn't completely withdrawn himself from them, might have been problematic. I'm not sure what other grounds there would be.

And what about Tom Phillips? When are they going to excommunicate him? It is not like Kate Kelly tried to sue the church and haul TSM to court. Or does he have a "get out of excommunication" card? If there is a "purge" going on it looks like they are being very selective.

[DrumNFeather]

I obviously am biased here, but I believe her.
Here's why: if they had really met, why would she bring it up, and then so specifically? It wasn't particularly central to her point (although certainly damning), he was sure to deny it, and it would just make her look like she was lying. In short, it's distracting, and such a strange thing to just fabricate. Putting myself in her shoes, I can't imagine just making something up like that.

On the other hand, why would her bishop lie in a formal document he sent to her knowing that everything he does in this whole ordeal is going to be immediately sent to the press? It's an odd he said/she said for sure. This is where I've felt all along that she could benefit from some PR advice of some kind. All these interviews she's done and apperances etc...hard to keep everything you say and how you say it straight.

[imanihonjin]

I obviously am biased here, but I believe her.
Here's why: if they had really met, why would she bring it up, and then so specifically? It wasn't particularly central to her point (although certainly damning), he was sure to deny it, and it would just make her look like she was lying. In short, it's distracting, and such a strange thing to just fabricate. Putting myself in her shoes, I can't imagine just making something up like that.

So you believe she wouldn't make something up like that but a specific response based on dates and multiple people who were there who could corroborate is something that someone would just "make up"?

Her credibility is further damaged by the fact that she continually whined about not being able to be present at her court of love. How she was being tried in absetntia, how inconvenient it was for her to have to travel across the country at her own expense (even though others offered to pay her way), and that she has a sick family member who she needs to be there for (again ignoring the fact that she is moving to Africa and that this family member is either going to be completely better by then or this was just another convenient excuse). Never did she mention that it was offered to move the council to a later date to more suit her schedule or the fact that she was offered to be skyped in. Clearly her whining about this and the issue regarding never having met with her Bishop were done to place him in the worst light possible.

She has damaged the church's reputation for sure, but she also comes away smelling pretty bad herself.

[SeattleUte]

I'm really curious what happens with Dehlin. I think the six discussions that OW put together loomed large in her court of love, and I can at least see some logic behind calling that a recruiting effort in opposition to the church. Dehlin really has made no similar gesture and in fact, staylds.com would seem to counter any similar accusation. The local MS groups, if he hadn't completely withdrawn himself from them, might have been problematic. I'm not sure what other grounds there would be.

So they excommunicate her because she agitated to change a policy. Even Scratch over on UB5, LAUte's alter ego, says that there's no doctrine that keeps the priesthood from women and they can change it and save face. Dehlin, however, has been questioning every fundamental of Mormon belief. And they don't excommunicate him. I think they did her and not him because they're sexist. Deep down they hate women and certainly they don't want to share power with women.