The June 1

[ewth8tr]

I can, and do, doubt her sincerity.

Shocking

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't know. I think she's got a pretty good shot at DF or even extended probation. I'm not putting money on it just yet, but I've got a gut feel that tomorrow won't result in an excom.

Could be. I guess I meant there is little chance they will meet and decide to do nothing. Will be interesting to watch.

[All-American]

Shocking

In case anybody is wondering, I'm not happy to see this happen. Excommunication is a sad, painful thing. But I do think some form of discipline is probably an appropriate course of action in this case. Disfellowshipping might be more appropriate than excommunication, though.

[TripletDaddy]

In case anybody is wondering, I'm not happy to see this happen.

lol. knock it off.

[ERCougar]

lol. knock it off.

"this will hurt me worse than it hurts you." (never mind that you're not three years old. oh, and that it's probably true.)

[CardiacCoug]

But I do think some form of discipline is probably an appropriate course of action in this case.

Why on earth do they need to "discipline" her? The idea that the Church has to "protect itself" is totally nutty. This disciplinary action clearly harms the Church. Furthermore, she's expressing her opinion. What the hell is wrong with expressing an opinion in America? This isn't Iran for hell's sake.

It's like we are all part of a law firm that has a policy that only men can be partners. One of the female associates is saying that policy is wrong and so she is being summarily fired. It defies all common sense and logic obviously for women not to have the priesthood, but all the more to punish a woman for simply pointing out the obvious discrimination and injustice and asking for a change.

I don't expect you to answer but just wanted to throw that out there and would love to hear you sum up your rationale for the church imposing "discipline" in a sentence or two.

Not sure what their job situation is, but it would be awesome of Kate's Bishop and Stake President lose their jobs over this. What an embarrassment for these guys -- if they have an ounce of moral sense or self-respect they would stop this nonsense.

[wuapinmon]

What a great exchange. I love that he calls you "Sir," too. Best wishes for a great experience for you both.

We're Southern. Sir and ma'am aren't optional for children. They make you use it in the schools even.

[Moliere]

That there a second definition to encompass defying leader's orders implies that opposition is not the same thing.

This is where I struggle with it. She's not an apostate in that she's not ordaining women. Most apostate stories I hear are when people are actually acting in an apostate manner, like praying to heavenly mother in public. If Kelly was actually ordaining women by the laying on of hands then it would clearly be apostate.

In this case she is just agitating for change of doctrine. It's a gray area, IMO, and will be interesting to see what happens. I still think they ex her and the second GC demonstration (after being told not to) and the 6 discussions were probably the last straws. Up until then the church treated her.

And it's incredibly bad that her bishopric didn't even address her repeated inquiries. Wow, talk about not fulfilling your calling...

[smokymountainrain]

I don't know. I think she's got a pretty good shot at DF or even extended probation. I'm not putting money on it just yet, but I've got a gut feel that tomorrow won't result in an excom.

I agree and I'd put money on it. HFN, double or nothing?

[Moliere]

Not sure what their job situation is, but it would be awesome of Kate's Bishop and Stake President lose their jobs over this. What an embarrassment for these guys -- if they have an ounce of moral sense or self-respect they would stop this nonsense.

Wow!

Btw, everyone should know their employment situation since she publicly posted it...and it looks like her reasons for posting it are working.

[Pheidippides]

Why on earth do they need to "discipline" her? The idea that the Church has to "protect itself" is totally nutty. This disciplinary action clearly harms the Church. Furthermore, she's expressing her opinion. What the hell is wrong with expressing an opinion in America? This isn't Iran for hell's sake.

It's like we are all part of a law firm that has a policy that only men can be partners. One of the female associates is saying that policy is wrong and so she is being summarily fired. It defies all common sense and logic obviously for women not to have the priesthood, but all the more to punish a woman for simply pointing out the obvious discrimination and injustice and asking for a change.

I don't expect you to answer but just wanted to throw that out there and would love to hear you sum up your rationale for the church imposing "discipline" in a sentence or two.

Not sure what their job situation is, but it would be awesome of Kate's Bishop and Stake President lose their jobs over this. What an embarrassment for these guys -- if they have an ounce of moral sense or self-respect they would stop this nonsense.

I don't see how the church can credibly claim that they are not misogynistic after this, even if the excommunication doesn't happen (don't bother, AA - I'm using the word whether you like it or not) and expect anybody to believe them other than those who are inside. Same thing as 1978 - the church still is suffering from a racist perception. See, e.g., the Book of Mormon musical. That doesn't wash off, and in 20 years when women get ordained (yes, I'm calling it) it will be yet another embarrassing thing to deal with in history. There are enough embarrassing things in church history to fill books; why make more?

I'm speaking of the church as an entity unto itself as being misogynistic/racist - I'm not talking about any specific individuals.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I agree and I'd put money on it. HFN, double or nothing?

I'm not going to wager on someone's salvation, sorry I have some standards.

[Soccermom]

I'm sorry, but to wish job loss on anyone is just terrible. You may not agree with them but I don't think they are getting any joy out of this. And even if they are, to wish the loss of a job and livelihood on these men seems heartless.

[scottie]

I think a great reason for women to be priesthood holders is so that they can be the ones asking girls sexual worthiness questions rather than men asking them.

[Topper]

The Church glacially slow in adopting social changes.

It also has struggles in addressing public dissent. Internal dissent is easy because the leaders ignore it.

Does anybody else believe the the behind the times approach to social issues negatively affects its current misso ovary efforts.

Conversely for those without doubts, such AA, the unifying social and spiritual aspects aware what matter. The core will remain unshaken or disturbed. However the Church will struggle to become a world church in the truest sense because of its inflexibility.

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