183 Semiannual General Conference Thread

[Northwestcoug]

Re: the Hoffman affair. I think it's pretty clear that the leadership at the time (which was essentially Hinkley) tried to suppress documents that did not fit the faith-promoting narrative of the origins of the church. I want to give Hinkley the benefit of the doubt and think he felt he had noble intentions for doing so. But it is still duplicitous.

I say this as someone who greatly admired Hinkley when he was alive, and really don't hold much animosity towards him in my current state of disbelief.

Kimball, on the other hand...

[Pelado]

Like challenging IPU to a fight? Self-policing is a joke and we both know it. People get keyboard courage we are all guilty of it. I promise you Nikuman has never said any of this about GBH in real life. If he said it in front of me I would punch that narcissistic bastard right in the face.

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Just as GBH would have wanted.

[Portland Ute]

I have to go back, but I think President Monson's talk last night, once again, was without reference to the Book of Mormon. I've found it interesting that since he's been the President, he so infrequently talks about minutiae and rarely cites the BofM. In contrast, you have a guy like Elder Scott that builds and entire talk around BofM references.

I'm not saying it means anything, I just find it interesting. President Monson is certainly not ETB.

I found the Young Women's President's talk interesting. I started out hating it. I actually ended up liking it. I like the language she used. She didn't talk testimony, she talked "conversion". I think that can fit well with what President Uchtdorf spoke about.

I realize not everyone is the same, but for many, I think gaining a "testimony" is like chasing a goblin. They never catch it. And I think it leads to people falling away from the church.

I do not think a "testimony" such as it is generally believed to be in Mormon culture is necessary for conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ. I think hope and resolve are sufficient for that conversion.

One might not "know" that God exists or Jesus is the savior, but they can certainly "hope" those things are true, recognize the goodness in the messages that resonate and then resolve to be a disciple of Christ. That is conversion. That isn't "knowledge". I don't think it's a "testimony" as is talked about generally in church. But it is conversion.

I think conversion is infinitely more accessible to many, including myself, than "testimony." Yeah, a testimony would certainly be nice and a huge aid in conversion, but the lack of one need not be a roadblock to conversion, should one have a hope and resolve.

[VirginiaCougar]

I don't think he'll get much of a reaction. CJ knows football and an uncanny/creepy amount of stuff about college and high school boys'lives, but as far as moral authority? Meh. I'll take unorthodox beliefs over punching someone in the face over a statement, calling an orphaned teenager a slut, or apparently gossiping about posters in boardmails/texts (keyboard courage...lol), to cite a few recent examples.


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As I read his statement, I kept thinking nothing could be more Christ-like than comparing those in different places regarding LDS church membership, doctrines, and individuals as being suicidal, drug-taking, deeply-troubled teenagers scratching obscenities into their flesh. (Sarcasm intended)

[Clark Addison]

BYUTV just went out on DTV. Is this the October surprise?

[Harry Tic]

A co-workers 14 year old daughter tried to commit suicide a few months back. She was admitted to the University of Utah psychiatric hospital. She spent two weeks in this hospital with girls similar to her. The hospital was crowded and she had three different roommates throughout her stay, all with various psychiatric issues from self mutilation to intentional drug overdoses and numerous suicide attempts.

After two weeks in the hospital and receiving treatment she was released. This girl clearly had issues but they were ones that the family felt like they could solve and help her work through. Compared to the other girls at the hospital she at least had a chance.

After coming home and going through the honeymoon stage of everything being great. She had her first fight with her stepdad. She took a knife and carved "fuck you" in to her forearm. A behavior she had never done before that they later found out she learned from her roommates at the hospital.

It has been 6 months and she now sneaks out of the house and meets up with these other patients. She has started doing drugs and the self harm has only gotten worse. None of these things would have been a problem had she not gone to the hospital and worked through her issues at home.

That is exactly what this board had become. Minor issues with faith, lack of belief, and church doctrine become magnified when you get around other "patients". You are not helping one another you are driving each other further and further away and teaching new behaviors that you would have never known otherwise. The sick are treating the sick.

Seeing guys like Nik and ER jump on apostles is disheartening but almost expected. Now however,Moliere who had a few doubts has joined in and seems to be falling further away than he was before.

It is very sad to watch the self destruction and like my co-worker I feel even worse for your families as you continue to feed each other and pickup negative behaviors from fellow posters.

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Sad story, and I have no doubt the analogy holds in some cases. While I don't agree with some of the views expressed about GBH on this thread, I am also certain that some posters here find their faith more challenged by the self-professed, chest-thumping believers who can act like total a-holes more than someone like Nik or ER.


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[Non Sequitur]

It could be, but I have yet to see a post conveying this. You don't see posts from those with Faith issues talking about how they dealt with it and what they do to move past it. You see bitching, moaning and tearing down others beliefs.

I am not propping myself up as any type of spokesman I am stating my opinion which based on numerous boardmails many others agree with me.



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I see very little tearing down of other people's beliefs. Yeah, there's bitching and moaning, but most people are respectful of what others believe and hold sacred. No one's perfect, and sometimes people get in a mood, but overall I think people here do a good job of being civil.

[Portland Ute]

but overall I think people here do a good job of being civil.

Funny, considering the person you are addressing...

Regardless, I have pondered on the very notion that cj expressed. I think there is great comfort for wandering souls when they find others that don't feel like they fit in mainstream LDS culture or thought.

However, sometimes being around others that are very like us isn't the best thing for us. if you are in quicksand, does it really do you and good surround yourself in the quicksand with other people? Or is it better to have someone outside of the quicksand to reach out to you with a stick or a rope to help pull you up and out of your predicament?

I do not think cj's portrayal of CUF/CS is wholly accurate, but I do think that there is some truth to what he says...at times...for some people. I think his analogy is overly harsh.

[TripletDaddy]

Uh T-Mos tie is pretty rad. Seriously I love it.

[Surfah]

BYUTV just went out on DTV. Is this the October surprise?

Our feed on Verizon FiOS has been terrible. Lots of frozen images, audio dropping out, interference, etc.

[Surfah]

Uh T-Mos tie is pretty rad. Seriously I love it.

Me too.

[Portland Ute]

Uh T-Mos tie is pretty rad. Seriously I love it.

It's quite fancy.

[Sizzle]

183 Semiannual General Conference Thread

Uh T-Mos tie is pretty rad. Seriously I love it.

It looks like he's been hitting up Express for men or something.

[Portland Ute]

I have an overwhelming urge to wipe the corners of my mouth.

[TripletDaddy]

The background looks like rainforest cafe.