The Bigots’ Last Hurrah

[TripletDaddy]

Cardiac ridiculed people for exercising their democratic rights. I am defending their right to vote and spend money in the face of the ridicule. What's hard to understand is your premature and judgmental attitude.

Cardiac is exercising his democratic right. He is free to ridicule that which he chooses. Although I don't see him ridiculing the individual right to vote one's conscience. He seems to be saying that he finds the cause to not be worthy of the funds....a far cry from saying, "how stupid of those people to vote on this matter."

As I said, I am fine with people voting however they see fit. That doesn't mean I don't think they are voting for dumb things. You categorize this as an attack on democracy. People don't need you to stick up for their right to vote. That has already been established.

[SeattleUte]

Anyone that wishes ill on the LDS Church needs some help.

Okay, I should have just said it shot itself in the foot. I was speaking hypothetically. Sorry to offend.

[tooblue]

Guess again. The Church has the right, but there are scores of rights that I don't exercise, especially when that right means that I'm taking rights away from others.

That's the biggest farce I have ever read. You exercise all of your rights all of the time by virtue of the fact of you live in a capitalist society. Your attempts at nobility are offensive.

[il Padrino Ute]

It's not okay to bash Jews when people think they're wrong? I think you need to do more reading. I see, for example, journals and newspapers bash Israel all the time. People bash Orthodox Jews for their literal belief in the OT and resultant efforts to affect Israeli foreign plicy.

You keep saying this; it makes you look Jew obsessed in a negative way, like an anti-semite. I guarantee you that if a synagogue opposed gay marriage it would be in for plenty of criticism.

You are correct, that Jews would deserve to be criticized when people think they're wrong. Of course, none would dare criticize Jews for fear of being labeled anti-Semite.

I should have been clear and asked why it's ok to bash Mormons for any reason, but not Jews. You do it all the time, SU. You demonstrate anti-Mormon bigotry on this site all the time.

My point is that it is open season on Mormons with impunity. Why the double standard?

[SeattleUte]

Well, I would tend to agree with EPU on this particular tangent. Anyone that wishes ill on the LDS Church needs some help.

I do agree that the LDS Church has unwittingly become the face of the anti-gay marriage movement, at least here in California. However, I think that will fade somewhat as time passes. People still see Mormons as racist for the incidents of 1978 and precedent, but I think that sentiment has dissipated somewhat over time. The same will prove true for this civil rights issue.

There is probably going to be a time in my lifetime when I will be telling my kids......"yeah, and then a bunch of people in our ward stood on freeway overpasses asking motorists to vote against equal rights for gays because they were afraid that everyone would be forced to tolerate gay marriage. The horror!"

I would assume that many folks here on CUF have older relatives that were old enough to remember racial segregation vividly. And most probably thought it was normal back in the day.

Yeah, racial segregation was made illegal in our country in 11964, 14 years before 1978.

[TripletDaddy]

Uh, yah. In a democracy people are permitted to vote their conscience. But I guess you don't believe in the democratic process?

tooblue, you seem to be spinning a strawman. Nobody has argued that these folks should not be able to vote for Prop 8 or donate a ton of money to it. The original point was that the donation was probably a waste of money.

Spin away, Rumpelstiltskin.

[wuapinmon]

I'm only pointing out that you and others here have such a disdain for the democratic process. That's very closed minded of you.

So, you're telling me that bishops hinting that temple recommends hinged on family's participation in the Prop 8 process was democratic? That the Church poured millions into the process is cool with you? That we suddenly shed our apolitical stance to get involved in politricks about ignoring the 14th Amendment is fine by you? I have no disdain for the democratic process. This isn't a budgetary, diplomacy, or national security. This is a civil issue that clearly ignores the farking Constitution.

I want someone to take this case to the Supreme Court and let's be done with all this shit. Let the high court rule and then we all fall in line, just like other stuff.

[tooblue]

Cardiac is exercising his democratic right. He is free to ridicule that which he chooses. Although I don't see him ridiculing the individual right to vote one's conscience. He seems to be saying that he finds the cause to not be worthy of the funds....a far cry from saying, "how stupid of those people to vote on this matter."

As I said, I am fine with people voting however they see fit. That doesn't mean I don't think they are voting for dumb things. You categorize this as an attack on democracy. People don't need you to stick up for their right to vote. That has already been established.

Are you serious ... of course that is what he was saying? By your own logic Cardiac doesn't need you to defend him. That has already been established.

[tooblue]

So, you're telling me that bishops hinting that temple recommends hinged on family's participation in the Prop 8 process was democratic? That the Church poured millions into the process is cool with you? That we suddenly shed our apolitical stance to get involved in politricks about ignoring the 14th Amendment is fine by you? I have no disdain for the democratic process. This isn't a budgetary, diplomacy, or national security. This is a civil issue that clearly ignores the farking Constitution.

I want someone to take this case to the Supreme Court and let's be done with all this shit. Let the high court rule and then we all fall in line, just like other stuff.

So you have documentation to back up your assertions? Great, take it to a court of law and prosecute the man for being an American Citizen. A Bishop is both a steward of the church and a citizen. He doesn't waive his rights of citizenship upon being called as Bishop.

[il Padrino Ute]

Yeah, racial segregation was made illegal in our country in 11964, 14 years before 1978.

Actually, Johnson didn't sign the Civil Rights bill until 1965.

Speaking of that, it took almost 100 years after the Civil War for it to be illegal to not allow blacks to vote. I'd say the Mormons responded rather quickly compared to the country, wouldn't you?

[TripletDaddy]

Are you serious ... of course that is what he was saying? By your own logic Cardiac doesn't you to defend him. That has already been established.

Perhaps I misread Cardiac's post. I didn't realize he was saying, "I am opposed to democracy." I simply thought he was saying, "I disagree with how these people cast their votes."

And for the record, Cardiac needs as much help as possible. Have you read some of his sports posts?

[tooblue]

Actually, Johnson didn't sign the Civil Rights bill until 1965.

Speaking of that, it took almost 100 years after the Civil War for it to be illegal to not allow blacks to vote. I'd say the Mormons responded rather quickly compared to the country, wouldn't you?

Don't confuse him with reality. Remember he doesn't associate with a certain segment of the population who, by his own account, is not smart or sophisticated enough to make informed political decisions.

[tooblue]

Perhaps I misread Cardiac's post. I didn't realize he was saying, "I am opposed to democracy." I simply thought he was saying, "I disagree with how these people cast their votes."

And for the record, Cardiac needs as much help as possible. Have you read some of his sports posts?

He essentially called people who donated funds and energy to the cause stupid. I am calling him stupid for ridiculing the democratic process.

[TripletDaddy]

You are correct, that Jews would deserve to be criticized when people think they're wrong. Of course, none would dare criticize Jews for fear of being labeled anti-Semite.

I should have been clear and asked why it's ok to bash Mormons for any reason, but not Jews. You do it all the time, SU. You demonstrate anti-Mormon bigotry on this site all the time.

My point is that it is open season on Mormons with impunity. Why the double standard?

EPU, I will definitely acknowledge your point if nobody else will. I think you are correct...there does seem to be a double standard when it comes to anything perceived to be anti-Semitic, as opposed to anti-Catholic, anti-Mormon, or anti-Islam. You ask why, but I think you know why. The world has carved out a moral exception for Jews because of what happened in WW2. It might not be fair or consistent, but I think this is the reason. It has nothing to do with Mormonism, at least not in my opinion.

[wuapinmon]

So you have documentation to back up your assertions? Great, take it to a court of law and prosecute the man for being an American Citizen. A Bishop is both a steward of the church and a citizen. He doesn't waive his rights of citizenship upon being called as Bishop.

The bishop can vote however he wants, but hinting that he'll deny you the spiritual blessings of the temple crosses a serious line.