The Bigots’ Last Hurrah

[tooblue]

Because apparently Cardiac hates democracy and the right to vote.

No more than you!

[Indy Coug]

This is allegedly why President Monson allegedly called Prop 8 'our Gettysburg'.

[UtahDan]

Cause you have and evil Knievel type in your avatar?

[byu71]

Alright, I have no evidence that I'll make public out of respect for those who gave it to me. My own bishop and stake presidency are hinting at withholding recommends over not doing your hometeaching, let alone for not participating in the single-most-important-issue-that-we-have-ever-seen-as-a-nation.

You can ignore me if you wish.

I can see what you are saying actually happening. I doubt every Bishop is the same. Some may be far more conservative in others and feel right about using their position to push their more conservative values in the name of righteousness, even going beyond what the brethern may say.

[CardiacCoug]

This is allegedly why President Monson allegedly called Prop 8 'our Gettysburg'.

For it to be "our Gettysburg" (the Church representing the North obviously, not the South) the Church would have to win not just the battle but the entire war.

The war against gay marriage will be lost, my friend. There is no doubt. It's only a matter of time.

[byu71]

I'm not mocking you right now. Can you please explain what you mean because I cannot understand the intended audience of your remarks?

I also am not mocking you. The answer is, let them who have ears listen.

[TripletDaddy]

First the naked orgy pic.

Now this.

You are becoming the master of small .jpg humor.

[smokymountainrain]

Alright, I have no evidence that I'll make public out of respect for those who gave it to me. My own bishop and stake presidency are hinting at withholding recommends over not doing your hometeaching, let alone for not participating in the single-most-important-issue-that-we-have-ever-seen-as-a-nation.

You can ignore me if you wish.

I should have clarified my point in my post above. I don't doubt it happened, but for my part if you are going to pass something off as fact and use it in your argument, you should be able to back it up with something more than "I know". Carry on.

FWIW, in my opinion the priesthood responsibility of hometeaching >>>>>> how somebody votes on Prop 8. I can certainly understand your SP and Bishop withholding recommends for that reason, while withholding recommends for a person's position on Prop is absurd.

[tooblue]

And making the leap from calling Cardiacs ridicule undemocratic and stupid is more or less absurd than calling me a bigot because I think his ridicule is stupid:

http://www.borev.net/funnynewyorkerfunny.gif

[SoonerCoug]

When I see the word "Hurrah" all I can think of is these Norwegian fellows:

[YOUTUBE]ysUjYAi0WcQ[/YOUTUBE]

[JohnnyLingo]

I can't believe yet another multi-page thread has been created debating this.

I got tired of hearing the same arguments over and over and over a long time ago.

But if you all enjoy it, more power to you.

[SeattleUte]

A little perspective here. The LDS Church is a monolithic organization like Catholicism. It's not like Judaism, or for that matter Islam or Protestants. So it's an easy target, and an appropriate target. The institution takes a position, mobilizes its adherants, and people criticize the institution for its position. They may even call the intsitution bigoted. There's nothng wrong with any of that. It's not the same thing as saying all Jews or all Mormons or all Muslims or all Baptists are [insert negative charactaristic]. But because Mormons' identity is so uiquely tied up in the institution, they personalize attacks on the institution. They think all Mormons are being attacked. They're not.

There is no Jewish Church to throw its money and influence behind Proposition 8 or other cause. You can't really even find a cause about with which you can generalize a Jewish association or sympathy, except to some extent Israel, as you can, say, Southern Baptists or Mormons and abortion or gay rights. (People used to think all Jews were Communists; that was part of the Nazi rationalization for the Holocaust.) And plenty of criticism gets leveled at Israel and its supporters. Individually, Jews are also quite heterogenious in their political views. The most you could say is that they tend to be more urban centered and liberal leaning. But even that is tenuous. Thus, any negative comment about Jews as a class inevitably will fairly draw a charge of bigotry. But the LDS Church as an institution is a different kettle of fish.

Finally, you have the point that Jews represent the oldest monotheistic religion in the world, that goes back over 3,000 years. The roots are tribal, centered in a fairly limited geography, and from their origins and for thousands of years thereafter Jews were a structurally discrete people. Even after they spread all over the world, they lived in ghettos and such. Jews are mostly a semitic people and there is a large scale sharing of genetic traits.

So the "LDS Church" and "Jews" are not comparable.

[wuapinmon]

Finally, you have the point that Jews represent the oldest monotheistic religion in the world,

I think the Zoroastrians would disagree with this statement.

[il Padrino Ute]

A little perspective here. The LDS Church is a monolithic organization like Catholicism. It's not like Judaism, or for that matter Islam or Protestants. So it's an easy target, and an appropriate target. The institution takes a position, mobilizes its adherants, and people criticize the institution for its position. They may even call the intsitution bigoted. There's nothng wrong with any of that. It's not the same thing as saying all Jews or all Mormons or all Muslims or all Baptists are [insert negative charactaristic]. But because Mormons' identity is so uiquely tied up in the institution, they personalize attacks on the institution. They think all Mormons are being attacked. They're not.

There is no Jewish Church to throw its money and influence behind Proposition 8 or other cause. You can't really even find a cause about with which you can generalize a Jewish association or sympathy, except to some extent Israel, as you can, say, Southern Baptists or Mormons and abortion or gay rights. (People used to think all Jews were Communists; that was part of the Nazi rationalization for the Holocaust.) And plenty of criticism gets leveled at Israel and its supporters. Individually, Jews are also quite heterogenious in their political views. The most you could say is that they tend to be more urban centered and liberal leaning. But even that is tenuous. Thus, any negative comment about Jews as a class inevitably will fairly draw a charge of bigotry. But the LDS Church as an institution is a different kettle of fish.

Finally, you have the point that Jews represent the oldest monotheistic religion in the world, that goes back over 3,000 years. The roots are tribal, centered in a fairly limited geography, and from their origins and for thousands of years thereafter Jews were a structurally discrete people. Even after they spread all over the world, they lived in ghettos and such. Jews are mostly a semitic people and there is a large scale sharing of genetic traits.

So the "LDS Church" and "Jews" are not comparable.

The LDS Church is the organization. Jews are not the organization. Therefore, you can't compare the two. Technically, you're right.

Mormons and Jews can be compared when it comes to being bigoted against either group of people.

Nice try.

[byu71]

A little perspective here. The LDS Church is a monolithic organization like Catholicism. It's not like Judaism, or for that matter Islam or Protestants. So it's an easy target, and an appropriate target. The institution takes a position, mobilizes its adherants, and people criticize the institution for its position. They may even call the intsitution bigoted. There's nothng wrong with any of that. It's not the same thing as saying all Jews or all Mormons or all Muslims or all Baptists are [insert negative charactaristic]. But because Mormons' identity is so uiquely tied up in the institution, they personalize attacks on the institution. They think all Mormons are being attacked. They're not.

There is no Jewish Church to throw its money and influence behind Proposition 8 or other cause. You can't really even find a cause about with which you can generalize a Jewish association or sympathy, except to some extent Israel, as you can, say, Southern Baptists or Mormons and abortion or gay rights. (People used to think all Jews were Communists; that was part of the Nazi rationalization for the Holocaust.) And plenty of criticism gets leveled at Israel and its supporters. Individually, Jews are also quite heterogenious in their political views. The most you could say is that they tend to be more urban centered and liberal leaning. But even that is tenuous. Thus, any negative comment about Jews as a class inevitably will fairly draw a charge of bigotry. But the LDS Church as an institution is a different kettle of fish.

Finally, you have the point that Jews represent the oldest monotheistic religion in the world, that goes back over 3,000 years. The roots are tribal, centered in a fairly limited geography, and from their origins and for thousands of years thereafter Jews were a structurally discrete people. Even after they spread all over the world, they lived in ghettos and such. Jews are mostly a semitic people and there is a large scale sharing of genetic traits.

So the "LDS Church" and "Jews" are not comparable.

On a scale of 1-10 how "utterly intolerant" would you say you are in the LDS churches stand on gay marriage. I would put myself at about a 3-4.