Why Mormons Leave

[Indy Coug]

Are there really that many wicked people in the world? Most of the people I know are relatively decent. What, exactly, are the criteria for being wheat or chaff?

You'll have to ask a Jehovah's Witness that question. I'm just telling you what they told me.

[FMCoug]

Are there really that many wicked people in the world? Most of the people I know are relatively decent. What, exactly, are the criteria for being wheat or chaff?

That was my thought as well. Isn't the standard to be living a terrestrial life?

[Omaha 680]

I think living forever on a paradisiacal earth (a la Garden of Eden) would be better than living in the heavens as a ministering angel.

I don't blame you, what with all the panda bears and carpenters that will be populating the earth.

[jay santos]

Yet again, I seem to have missed out on some essential rhetoric. I recall increasing membership numbers being celebrated, but I just don't recall much talk about how it was proof the truthfulness of the church or that world domination was part of the plan. I seem to recall it more in line with what DDD has described.

I'll stick my neck out here. I used to think church growth was an important indicator of the truthfulness of the gospel. Not THE most important. More like a nice to have.

I also got off on that study showing church membership would be 200M by the year 2050 or something.

Here's why it seemed important to me.

It doesn't seem logical for me for God to have his church restored on the earth and then let it be this insignificant organization that most people on the Earth have never heard of. But if the idea is that it is insignificant now, but it's on it's way through high growth to becoming very large, then it's OK.

If growth has slowed to the point where it's apparent that the church will never be a significant organization on the Earth, then you have to rethink a lot of things about what the purpose of the church is and all that.

[TripletDaddy]

The commonly-accepted viewpoint on worldwide church membership is that by the end of the Millennium, essentially everyone on earth will be a member of the church. That's over 1,000 years from now.

Even if you take the roughly 1% per annum earth population growth rate and the roughly (pedestrian) 2% church rate and assumed these rates remained static going forward, this viewpoint would be validated in 700-800 years.

It is?

[Non Sequitur]

If growth has slowed to the point where it's apparent that the church will never be a significant organization on the Earth, then you have to rethink a lot of things about what the purpose of the church is and all that.

The most interesting pat of that is how will affect the missionary program. Maybe that's one of the reasons the bar was raised...the number of missionaries out in the field couldn't justify the returns.

[Omaha 680]

I'll stick my neck out here. I used to think church growth was an important indicator of the truthfulness of the gospel. Not THE most important. More like a nice to have.

I also got off on that study showing church membership would be 200M by the year 2050 or something.

Here's why it seemed important to me.

It doesn't seem logical for me for God to have his church restored on the earth and then let it be this insignificant organization that most people on the Earth have never heard of. But if the idea is that it is insignificant now, but it's on it's way through high growth to becoming very large, then it's OK.

If growth has slowed to the point where it's apparent that the church will never be a significant organization on the Earth, then you have to rethink a lot of things about what the purpose of the church is and all that.

Our own scriptures address this concern:

And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

I, too, once thought the Church would become a very significant world organization. I don't know what I think its destiny is anymore, but it really isn't that important to me. We often get ahead of ourselves in the Church trying to know what fulfilment of prophecy will look like.

[jay santos]

Our own scriptures address this concern:



I, too, once thought the Church would become a very significant world organization. I don't know what I think its destiny is anymore, but it really isn't that important to me. We often get ahead of ourselves in the Church trying to know what fulfilment of prophecy will look like.

edit: nvm, not reading clearly today. I'll think about this and respond later.

[TripletDaddy]

I must have missed out on all of these prophecies and promises of world domination.

The longer I'm on CUF the more I am convinced that being born into the Church messes you up. Seems healthier to join up later. No wonder Jesus didn't get baptized until he was older!

[byu71]

I wonder how the Word of Wisdom became such a big deal. Didn't it basically come about because Emma hated cleaning up the chewing tobacco spit? I don't know why the alcohol part.

Really, we end up putting people who smoke or drink in the same lumping with folks who commit adultery or lie. That one really shook me up when I left the sheltered life and found out there were many people who smoked and drank who I would far rather deal with in a business transaction than a few of the "faithful" non drinkers.

[Northwestcoug]

I heard it growing up, on my mission, and even post-mission. I don't hear it as much now but the rhetoric was definitely there.

Me too. I'm surprised that this isn't a more widely held memory here. Maybe the rhetoric wasn't trumpeted over the GC pulpit, but the seeds were certainly planted there.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Me too. I'm surprised that this isn't a more widely held memory here. Maybe the rhetoric wasn't trumpeted over the GC pulpit, but the seeds were certainly planted there.

So if it wasn't in GC, where was it? And what were these seeds? Surely you aren't referring to the membership numbers being read at conf, are you?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I must have missed out on all of these prophecies and promises of world domination.

The longer I'm on CUF the more I am convinced that being born into the Church messes you up. Seems healthier to join up later. No wonder Jesus didn't get baptized until he was older!

I missed it too!

[FMCoug]

The longer I'm on CUF the more I am convinced that being born into the Church messes you up. Seems healthier to join up later. No wonder Jesus didn't get baptized until he was older!

:thumbup:

[scottie]

The longer I'm on CUF the more I am convinced that being born into the Church messes you up. Seems healthier to join up later. No wonder Jesus didn't get baptized until he was older!

This!