Why Mormons Leave

[NorthwestUteFan]

I think people are getting hung up on the word shocked. Everyone agrees that people would be surprised by that right? It doesn't line up nicely with the idea that the rock cut out of the mountain without hands is in the process of filling up the whole earth.

The problem with basing a testimony on the rate of growth is, as I mentioned above and was claimed in the Ryan Cragun podcast, the Seventh Day Adventist and JW churches are growing at a rate of nearly 5 times faster than the LDS church (approximately 1 million new members per year, whereas the LDS church has <200k).

And if we want to get down to it, the Foursquare Pentecostal movement has grown from only a few congregations in the late 1800s to nearly 120 million over the last century. There are over 10k seperate congregations so they are viewed as seperate churches, but the overall growth of the movement is astounding.

I will counter by saying the LDS church, to my mind, has a better explanation of the meaning of life than any other religion I have researched...

Now there's another issue related to church growth. Church growth has been grinding almost to a halt over the last 20 years. But that's evident within the current reporting system--no need to revise the member definition to illustrate it. I think that particular issue (slow church growth) is likely not that commonly understood and would be upsetting to many church members.

Very well said. I agree that is a far more troubling issue.
Granted, very little is required of members of Pentecostal churches and the meetings can be very fun and uplifting. The benefits greatly exceed the costs in that case.

[Moliere]

I'm sorry guys but if you are denying that the discourse within the church on this issue from top to bottom for at least the last 30 years has centered on explosive growth as a fulfillment of prophecy complete with projections of what the membership numbers would be over the next 50+ years then you are saying the sky is some color other than blue.

The gloss you are putting on it is fine, but it is a recent gloss. I'm not saying it causes the sky to fall within the church, but it is a shift. If you don't believe that would cause any concern, then explain why you think the church includes within it's membership numbers which it reports to the body of the church at general conference literally millions of people who have no meaningful connection to the church.

Unless those people are being used by apostates to point out how little the church gives for humanitarian aid by using "per member" figures

I'm with UD on this one. We can't just turn a blind eye to the rhetoric over the past couple decades in regards to the ballooning church membership being touted as evidence of the truthfulness of the church. Although I think most members are fully aware that the active membership is not 14 million, I think some would have a hard time if the membership numbers started to trend downwards or were cut in half. However, I think if that ever happened, the membership count would cease to be given over the pulpit in GC.

I like DDD's approach and it's probably the direction things are heading. TBM's will continue to define things to find things to fit within their paradigm, similar to the evolution of the BoM historicity going from a hemispheric model to a limited geography model.

[Uncle Ted]

Before you roll your eyes and dismiss my statement, give me the percentage who YOU believe would be affected by such a revelation. I am not saying they will leave, but such a revelation would be very painful for a large number of members.

It probably wouldn't greatly shock the majority of members, but a good 25% - 35% of the active members would be disturbed by such an adjustment.

Those 25% to 35% need to be called to work as a membership clerk.

[UtahDan]

Those 25% to 35% need to be called to work as a membership clerk.

Well, that's not possible for more than half of those people, right?

[NorthwestUteFan]

Those 25% to 35% need to be called to work as a membership clerk.

Agreed. We spent many months as an EQ presidency clearing the hundreds 'unknown persons' within our boundaries from the books, when we could have done something more useful.

[Non Sequitur]

Even if you take the roughly 1% per annum earth population growth rate and the roughly (pedestrian) 2% church rate and assumed these rates remained static going forward, this viewpoint would be validated in 700-800 years.

So I guess that 700 years from now everyone on earth will also be a Jehovah's Witness?

[NorthwestUteFan]

Well, that's not possible for more than half of those people, right?

That is something else they should change. Let women hold those positions too!

[Indy Coug]

So I guess that 700 years from now everyone on earth will also be a Jehovah's Witness?

Yeah, but it won't be very many people, given the paring down of the current 7 billion people down to some low 6 figure number.

[UtahDan]

Unless those people are being used by apostates to point out how little the church gives for humanitarian aid by using "per member" figures

Wait. Are you saying that people are going around claiming that it is only 5 dollars per person per year when it's really 10? And I apostatized over that? Shit.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Unless those people are being used by apostates to point out how little the church gives for humanitarian aid by using "per member" figures

I'm with UD on this one. We can't just turn a blind eye to the rhetoric over the past couple decades in regards to the ballooning church membership being touted as evidence of the truthfulness of the church. Although I think most members are fully aware that the active membership is not 14 million, I think some would have a hard time if the membership numbers started to trend downwards or were cut in half. However, I think if that ever happened, the membership count would cease to be given over the pulpit in GC.

I like DDD's approach and it's probably the direction things are heading. TBM's will continue to define things to find things to fit within their paradigm, similar to the evolution of the BoM historicity going from a hemispheric model to a limited geography model.

Yet again, I seem to have missed out on some essential rhetoric. I recall increasing membership numbers being celebrated, but I just don't recall much talk about how it was proof the truthfulness of the church or that world domination was part of the plan. I seem to recall it more in line with what DDD has described.

[UtahDan]

So I guess that 700 years from now everyone on earth will also be a Jehovah's Witness?

That is a lot of competition for only 144,000 spots.

[UtahDan]

Yet again, I seem to have missed out on some essential rhetoric. I recall increasing membership numbers being celebrated, but I just don't recall much talk about how it was proof the truthfulness of the church or that world domination was part of the plan. I seem to recall it more in line with what DDD has described.

So you not paying attention in church predates the ipad? Oh man.

[NorthwestUteFan]

That is a lot of competition for only 144,000 spots.

I think living forever on a paradisiacal earth (a la Garden of Eden) would be better than living in the heavens as a ministering angel.

[Moliere]

Yet again, I seem to have missed out on some essential rhetoric. I recall increasing membership numbers being celebrated, but I just don't recall much talk about how it was proof the truthfulness of the church or that world domination was part of the plan. I seem to recall it more in line with what DDD has described.

I heard it growing up, on my mission, and even post-mission. I don't hear it as much now but the rhetoric was definitely there.

[Non Sequitur]

Yeah, but it won't be very many people, given the paring down of the current 7 billion people down to some low 6 figure number.

Are there really that many wicked people in the world? Most of the people I know are relatively decent. What, exactly, are the criteria for being wheat or chaff?