Why Mormons Leave

[Non Sequitur]

I would like to remind everyone that I am out because of carpet on the gym floor. No loving God would do that. Some times it is important to take a stand for what is right AC.

God does not love ankles. A lesson first learned on the rubber floors of the Smith Field House.

[Sullyute]

Surprised this has not been posted yet. There is piece in the Ensign entitled "When He Stopped Believing" which I view as a tentative, but very positive, step in the right direction.

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/07/wh...pped-believing

Interesting article. I obviously like the love'em instead of leave'em approach. This quote makes me think a little:

During moments of self-pity, with the help of the Spirit I have realized that either I can focus on what my husband’s choices have taken from our temple marriage, or I can strive even more to develop a celestial relationship with him.

How does a spouse's disaffection affect the blessings of celestial marriage/everlasting covenant, if any?

[Paperback Writer]

How does a spouse's disaffection affect the blessings of celestial marriage/everlasting covenant, if any?

Interesting question. In this life or in the eternities?

I remember my mother pulling me aside as a teenager after hearing a sister in the ward express that her shortcomings would be offset because of the righteousness of her husband. Something to the effect that her husband was so righteous and they were eternally married so they would be judged as a couple or that a righteous priesthood holder would not be denied the companionship of his wife in the eternities as long as she met the minimum qualifications for the CK. This was in the early 1970s and much has changed since then. But it made me think if the opposite is now occurring in the thought process of some LDS. A women's righteousness off-setting her husband's unbelief. I don't subscribe to either example but I find trends like this interesting.

And I don't have any answers either. I do think an eternal marriage will have blessings in this life even if a spouse is disaffected with the LDS church. Similar to my belief that a child still receives blessing in this life for being born in conveant (BIC) even if they are currently disaffected with the LDS church.

The eternities is much more complex for me.

[Sullyute]

Similar to my belief that a child still receives blessing in this life for being born in conveant (BIC) even if they are currently disaffected with the LDS church.

I think that you are talking about an adult child being blessed by the prayers, concern and affection of righteous loving parents despite the child's non-belief, and this I would agree.

But does this also correlate to children (babies and toddlers) receiving extra blessings by being "born in the covenant" than those who are not? As I don't agree there. Just to make my point, child A is born to parents married in the temple, then one spouse resigns from the church and child B is born. Does God bless child A more than child B simply because child A was born in the covenant and child B was not?

[lambdacoug]

And I don't have any answers either. I do think an eternal marriage will have blessings in this life even if a spouse is disaffected with the LDS church. Similar to my belief that a child still receives blessing in this life for being born in conveant (BIC) even if they are currently disaffected with the LDS church.

I think you are right. As further evidence, my dad pulled me aside on Father's Day and told me that he prays for me every day and night, and that is why I'm still employed...

I like to think that it's because, you know, I'm good at what I do.

[Non Sequitur]

I think you are right. As further evidence, my dad pulled me aside on Father's Day and told me that he prays for me every day and night, and that is why I'm still employed...

I like to think that it's because, you know, I'm good at what I do.

It's nice that your father cares about you. My mother always tell she puts my name on the prayer rolls. I always thank her.

[Joe Public]

I can't believe no one has commented on this. This is the Ensign advocating simply loving an apostate spouse. Love over belief. Something we have argued about here interminably here. It would be better out of the mouth of a GA in conference, but this is the first time the message has been delivered. This is going to save a whole bunch of marriages, IMO.

I think the message is more open-minded than usual, but I don't read it as "love over belief" as much as "belief doesn't require a cessation of love."

As far as saving marriages, I'm not sure what to think. Lines like

It is impossible for my husband to dedicate his life to the Lord if that is not his personal choice. Regardless of how desperately I long for my husband to have a strong testimony of Jesus Christ, I cannot wish or force or pray him into receiving that testimony.

I can have significant influence on the spiritual progress of our marriage despite his choices.

It is my deepest desire that someday my husband will regain a personal testimony of the Savior and that we can share that united faith in this life.

show that the wife is coming at this with what some might call a "one true church" mentality that views the husband as fallen or, at the least, not seeing the whole truth that she sees. Likewise, many in the position of the husband in this story may also feel as if they've discovered a greater truth that their spouse has yet to see.

I wonder whether those types of attitudes afford sufficient respect for a spouse's viewpoint to allow for long-term harmony. For example, how will the viewpoints be presented as children are raised? I don't know the answer, and it will be different in each relationship.

It is pretty easy to pick out those who have the hard on's.

lol. I'm reminded of junior high dances.

[DU Ute]

I think you are right. As further evidence, my dad pulled me aside on Father's Day and told me that he prays for me every day and night, and that is why I'm still employed...

I like to think that it's because, you know, I'm good at what I do.

You seem kind of ungrateful.

[lambdacoug]

It's nice that your father cares about you. My mother always tell she puts my name on the prayer rolls. I always thank her.

Yup, a simple thank you is the correct answer to things like these.

[lambdacoug]

You seem kind of ungrateful.

Not at all, but a prayer is hardly the reason I'm still employed.

[Paperback Writer]

I think that you are talking about an adult child being blessed by the prayers, concern and affection of righteous loving parents despite the child's non-belief, and this I would agree.

But does this also correlate to children (babies and toddlers) receiving extra blessings by being "born in the covenant" than those who are not? As I don't agree there. Just to make my point, child A is born to parents married in the temple, then one spouse resigns from the church and child B is born. Does God bless child A more than child B simply because child A was born in the covenant and child B was not?

I was thinkng more in regards to adult children but would also include teenage kids. I haven't thought this out too well though - just my immediate notion.

As to your example, I would just point out that both children are probably BIC unless the spouse resigning from the church resulted in a divorce and temple sealing cancelation in between births of the children. It would be uncommon to get a divorce, go through the hassle of a temple sealing cancelation, and then have another kid together. I don't know of a situation where two kids born of the same parents and one is BIC and the other is not. Perhaps I don't understand but I suppose it is possible with stepchildren. Perhaps child A is BIC, then a divorce and disaffection from the church, and then child B is born to a different spouse. Does the first child get special blessings because of BIC standing while the other does not while both are raised by the same parents? Good question. I don't know. I do understand your position that chidren/toddlers don't receive special blessings because of BIC. I don't disagree - I just don't know.

[Goatnapper'96]

Yup, a simple thank you is the correct answer to things like these.

A simple thank you is the right thing to say, but the right thing to think is how simpleminded your dad is and how grateful you should be that were able to overpower the tentacles of limiting belief system and free yourself.

[Indy Coug]

A simple thank you is the right thing to say, but the right thing to think is how simpleminded your dad is and how grateful you should be that were able to overpower the tentacles of limiting belief system and free yourself.

Steven Covey has notified me that this is known as a "win-win".

[lambdacoug]

A simple thank you is the right thing to say, but the right thing to think is how simpleminded your dad is and how grateful you should be that were able to overpower the tentacles of limiting belief system and free yourself.

Exactly.

[DU Ute]

Not at all, but a prayer is hardly the reason I'm still employed.

I know. I was trying to be sarcastic. It didn't come across like I wanted. Just remember that 90% of what I post is sarcasm.