mormonstories.org

[Jeff Lebowski]

The Maxwell Institute has a really ugly habit of publishing, or even worse, just insinuating, ad hominem attacks (Michael Quinn's sexuality comes to mind...wtf?). If I heard they were about to publish something about me, particularly if it could hurt my wife, my kids, or former guests on the show, I'd try to stop it too.

That said, it's lame of John to publish Peterson's email without publishing his own.

But really--indefensible? That's pretty strong language when you don't even have close to all the facts.

What facts am I missing?

He pulled strings to squelch the article without even seeing the contents. This from a guy who relentlessly beats the drum for openness and full disclosure of LDS history. Please defend that, because your justification above really falls short, IMO. Based on your logic, the Maxwell Institute should be prevented from publishing anything.

[lambdacoug]

What facts am I missing?

He pulled strings to squelch the article without even seeing the contents. This from a guy who relentlessly beats the drum for openness and full disclosure of LDS history. Please defend that, because your justification above really falls short, IMO. Based on your logic, the Maxwell Institute should be prevented from publishing anything.

Hate to point out the obvious, but aren't you condemning Dehlin without seeing the article?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hate to point out the obvious, buy aren't you condemning Dehlin without seeing the article?

lol.

Oh man. Who can argue with logic like this?

[lambdacoug]

lol.

Oh man. Who can argue with logic like this?

Nice of you to not be a complete douche bag. Anyway, I don't disagree with you but I'll wait until more is known before condemning Dehlin. Perhaps Dehlin wasn't completely in the dark about what the article contained and had to act to protect his family.

[ERCougar]

lol.

Oh man. Who can argue with logic like this?

Um...do you mind trying?

Do you know what was going to be published? Apparently, the church found it distasteful, as did the powers that be at Maxwell (a low bar).

[Portland Ute]

Nice of you to not be a complete douche bag. Anyway, I don't disagree with you but I'll wait until more is known before condemning Dehlin. Perhaps Dehlin wasn't completely in the dark about what the article contained and had to act to protect his family.

What if the info in the article was true? Should the information not come to light solely because of his family?

This would be quite an interesting approach for the discovery of truth.

[lambdacoug]

What if the info in the article was true? Should the information not come to light solely because of his family?

This would be quite an interesting approach for the discovery of truth.

No, I think truth should trump, generally. However, how would you react if something harmful would be published about you that would indeed hurt your family?
This is all hypothetical anyway since we don't know.

[Moliere]

You mess with the bull, you get the horns.

[UtahDan]

To me the real story here is how powerful Dehlin apparently is. But the last I saw the Maxwell guys were denying it went down this way.

[UtahDan]

I'll also add that for the most part those guys are their own worst enemies and the best tactic is to sit back and let them be fools. On the other hand, they are bullies who get really personal with people and I don't mind seeing the bully get popped in the nose. Even if personally I think the high road is to just let them publish what they are going to publish and allow it to speak for itself (or engage it if you want).

[Danimal]

Maybe this is old news (let me know if this has been posted elsewhere), but it appears that John Dehlin has been involved in a very ugly fight with the Maxwell Institute. In a nutshell, he heard a rumor that they were going to publish a critique about Mormon Stories so he quickly went on the attack (including an appeal to a GA) and got the article squelched. All of this without ever seeing the contents of the article. You can get the gist here:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/...hn-dehlin-lou/

Seems like an incredibly stupid and hypocritical move by Dehlin. That's a real shame. He has had some terrific guests in the past year, including Dan Peterson himself! Hard to imagine that he will be able to continue to attract good guests with juvenile behavior like this. Argh...

I agree that it's both stupid and hypocritical. He came across as weak and petty. Worst of all is his eagerness for censorship and to have a GA do his dirty work too. Goes against everything he stands for.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Um...do you mind trying?

Do you know what was going to be published?

What does that have do with anything? As I mentioned above, JD never claimed to have read the article. In the e-mail he sent and in the discussion on the thread, not once (unless I missed something) did he claim to know what was in the article, other than it would be a critical review of Mormon Stories. In the follow-up e-mail he sent, he attacked Daniel Peterson's character (ponder the irony of that for a moment) and attacked apologetics in general as being damaging to the faith of members (more irony), and included some random quotes from anonymous participants in a survey. I think it is safe to assume that if he had some knowledge of slanderous/incorrect material in the article, he would have used that in his argument that it be suppressed.

Given that context, the fact that I have not read the article either seems completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Apparently, the church found it distasteful, as did the powers that be at Maxwell (a low bar).

Do you have any evidence of that? If so, please share. All we know is that JD raised some hell and stopped the publication (for now).

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'll also add that for the most part those guys are their own worst enemies and the best tactic is to sit back and let them be fools. On the other hand, they are bullies who get really personal with people and I don't mind seeing the bully get popped in the nose. Even if personally I think the high road is to just let them publish what they are going to publish and allow it to speak for itself (or engage it if you want).

Agreed. Contrast this episode with the Hancock attacks on Joanna Brooks. Not only did she refuse to get down in the dirt with him or raise hell with BYU or the church to try to silence him, she completely ignored him and let others respond. I think she handled it perfectly.

Furthermore, let's consider the alternative scenario for a moment. Suppose the Maxwell Institute caught wind that JD and MoSto were going to do a podcast that is a critical review of the Maxwell Institute and called in the big guns to get it silenced without even seeing the content of the podcast. Can you imagine the shit storm that would ensue? Yowza.

[DU Ute]

Thanks for posting this, JL. That was a very entertaining thread. These people deserve each other, imo. I really like this snippet posted by Kevin Christensen :

Take note that those who send out the young unprepared, or who create faulty background expectations for them, have just as much to answer for as those who stand in the great and spacious building, zealously or morbidly pointing out problems. Whether they intend to or not, both camps can lead innocent individuals to feel shame at clinging to the iron rod, and to lose their way, and wander lost in the broad roads. The disillusioned got their illusions somewhere.

[jay santos]

I'll also add that for the most part those guys are their own worst enemies and the best tactic is to sit back and let them be fools. On the other hand, they are bullies who get really personal with people and I don't mind seeing the bully get popped in the nose. Even if personally I think the high road is to just let them publish what they are going to publish and allow it to speak for itself (or engage it if you want).

This is what I was thinking. I have no doubt, Peterson et al, would have little ethical boundary to go after him in a way that might make him really uncomfortable. It would have been fun to watch. And I think Peterson would have come out looking the worst, but nobody wins in these, and I can see why Dehlin might have tried to put a stop to it.