What do you suppose an Honor Code Office employee knocks down?

[Art Vandelay]

So the HC is really good/bad at intimdiation and accusation, but really bad/good at false positive convictions and expulsions?

[old_gregg]

"A List of Things We Think are a Good Idea for Most People"

i.e. a "Word of Wisdom"

[SoCalCoug]

When I was on the Honor Code Council, "we" (I didn't have any input - I was on it because my sister said there were cute girls on it - she was right, but nothing worked out) came up with this "Circle of Honor" promotion - I don't know if it's still around. It's based on something Karl Maeser said about how if someone drew a circle on the ground in chalk and he gave his word that he would stand in it and not leave, he would stand there until he died, or something like that.

I think that whole idea was kind of stupid - because what about other responsibilities he had, such as family, church, work, etc. Is your "word of honor" really worth more than everything else in the world?

My feeling is that's the kind of mentality they have in the Honor Code office - nothing in the world is more important than your word of honor, and when you come to BYU, you give your word of honor that you will abide by the Honor Code. Therefore, nothing in the world is more important than the Honor Code.

I think that's silly. The problem is, the people in charge of enforcing the honor code don't.

I remember feeling guilty because I refused to ever turn anyone in for violating the honor code - they used to even have a "testimony meeting" at the beginning of the meetings where people could share their experiences of reporting people for honor code violations.

These are the people running the honor code office.

[FMCoug]

When I was on the Honor Code Council, "we" (I didn't have any input - I was on it because my sister said there were cute girls on it - she was right, but nothing worked out) came up with this "Circle of Honor" promotion - I don't know if it's still around. It's based on something Karl Maeser said about how if someone drew a circle on the ground in chalk and he gave his word that he would stand in it and not leave, he would stand there until he died, or something like that.

I think that whole idea was kind of stupid - because what about other responsibilities he had, such as family, church, work, etc. Is your "word of honor" really worth more than everything else in the world?

My feeling is that's the kind of mentality they have in the Honor Code office - nothing in the world is more important than your word of honor, and when you come to BYU, you give your word of honor that you will abide by the Honor Code. Therefore, nothing in the world is more important than the Honor Code.

I think that's silly. The problem is, the people in charge of enforcing the honor code don't.

I remember feeling guilty because I refused to ever turn anyone in for violating the honor code - they used to even have a "testimony meeting" at the beginning of the meetings where people could share their experiences of reporting people for honor code violations.
These are the people running the honor code office.

Just when I thought I couldn't be more disgusted ...

[Borderline Divine]

"I was on it because my sister said there were cute girls on it - she was right, but nothing worked out)"

Well its taken two pages but I finally got an answer to my original question of why would anybody want to be an honor code enforcer.

Its for the chicks, silly.

[WashingtonCoug]

Classic!

The honor code enforcement is evil because someone once confused me with someone else.

Hey if I hadn't been able to prove that it was someone else, my butt was on the line. They didn't let me think for one moment that even if I didn't do it I would be OK. It was up to me to prove my innocence. It would have been one thing if they told me we believe you we will work with you, but we need to verify your story. It was totally up to me to somehow show that I never wore earrings.

[Jacob]

You have to admit that there are more issues than just the confusion of identity.

What about the classic cop technic of "do you know why I pulled you over?" in an attempt to get him to admit guilt of something - and really this is nothing more than a fishing expedition as she already had a certain allegation. Was she hoping he would admit to something else so that she could bank charges against him?

If she's going to play cop, at least she should marandize the guy.

The "guilty until proven innocent" part doesn't bother you at all?

Not to mention the fact that she didn't even initially tell him why he was there.

I'm going to assume that the facts were a little bit exaggerated. We only have one biased side of the story, after all. So all we have is a low-level honor code worker being accused of being over-zealous. But no harm was done. I honestly can't imagine that scenario playing out as described if I were mistakenly called into the HC office.

This board is amazing. All the bashing and outrage made me do a complete 180. Last night, upon hearing the news, I was 100% against the stupid code. Now I find myself defending it.

[Portland Ute]

Then there is no point of having an Honor Code. Change it to "A List of Things We Think are a Good Idea for Most People"

But an Honor Code is a set of rules and when a person breaks the rules, they face the sanctions.

Another alternative is to disagree with the sanctions. Perhaps that's what's meant by being opposed to the "enforcement." But an academic institution has few options for sanctions available at its disposal.

IMO, the Honor Code should only be for serious offenses, and expulsion should be the primary sanction.

What do the words "Honor" and "Code" mean here?

I think of the "honor system" whereby people hold THEMSELVES to the standard and the application is left to the individual.

[Eddie]

I'm going to assume that the facts were a little bit exaggerated. We only have one biased side of the story, after all. So all we have is a low-level honor code worker being accused of being over-zealous. But no harm was done. I honestly can't imagine that scenario playing out as described if I were mistakenly called into the HC office.

This board is amazing. All the bashing and outrage made me do a complete 180. Last night, upon hearing the news, I was 100% against the stupid code. Now I find myself defending it.

Just wait one minute there!

I'm sorry, but your imagination isn't good enough.

Just like WashingtonCoug was asked to prove he had never worn a magnetic earing, I'd like some proof that this particular honor code officer wasn't over-zealous.

I mean, heaven knows that no one would EVER exaggerate a report to the honor code office. So there is no way that the initial earing report was wrong. And an honor code employee would never make a mistake. I mean, only people who did something bad and had to report there would ever exaggerate something, right?



Trust me on this, Jacob, I'm generally with you. I don't necessarily have a problem with the honor code and don't have a problem with some enforcement (what that looks like I've yet to determine). All that aside, if there are some honor code employees who are misusing their position, that is wrong.

And it is that simple. All you have to say is - "Yep. If that girl did that to you as part of her investigation - she was wrong to do it."

That doesn't make the whole honor code wrong. That doesn't make the idea of enforcment or consequences wrong. It makes that particular person's behavior wrong. If they did it.

[wuapinmon]

I was in a meeting today to discuss the creation of an Honor Code at my college, no lie. Some of my colleagues asked me why Davies had been booted off the team; I told them it was because he wasn't circumcised. (a lie)

[Sizzle]

And without enforcement, there is no code in honor code.

Can mercy rob justice? An can justice exist if we only show mercy?!?

[SuperGabers]

I was in a meeting today to discuss the creation of an Honor Code at my college, no lie. Some of my colleagues asked me why Davies had been booted off the team; I told them it was because he wasn't circumcised. (a lie)

ROTFLMAO!

[byu71]

And without enforcement, there is no code in honor code.

Are you sure. If I ask 50 kids on their honor to do their assignments and they agree and only 45 complete their assignment, then there is no honor for the 45? Is the only way the 45 can feel honor is if they see the 5 severly punished.

Is there no reward in just completing the assignment as asked and honored.

The punishment is there as an incentive to insure they keep their honor. If the reward is that I am not punished, I find that an empty reward. People will say, I had no honor unless threatened.

I maintain it isn't an honor code. It is a BYU code, standards code, rules contract, etc.

[byu71]

So someone was threatening to throw you out of school over your inability to disprove the wearing of a magnetic earring?

And apparently, your attitude about the whole thing became part of the problem.

Yea, nothing unreasonable going on there.

and the person confronting him acted honorably?????

[Colly Wolly]

The red guards of byu.