What do you suppose an Honor Code Office employee knocks down?

[Tex]

Yep. Not a fan of those in most cases either. That said, if the HCO office operated like most stakes and wards do in regards to DC's it would be a huge step in the right direction. Last I checked, my Bishop has never encouraged me to be on the lookout for sinners in our midst to report so he can convene a council.

Which is why I said it's a very bad comparison.

But Jacob's right, without some sort of enforcement having an honor code is pretty meaningless, which I assume is the underlying desire of most of those who oppose it.

[FMCoug]

Which is why I said it's a very bad comparison.

But Jacob's right, without some sort of enforcement having an honor code is pretty meaningless, which I assume is the underlying desire of most of those who oppose it.

With enforcement, there is no honor in honor code.

[Donuthole]

With enforcement, there is no honor in honor code.

And without enforcement, there is no code in honor code.

[Jacob]

With enforcement, there is no honor in honor code.

That's an interesting definition of honor you have. I don't get it though.

Honor usually refers to honesty, integrity, and fairness. A code is a set of rules. In this case it is a set of rules regarding honesty and integrity.

How does enforcing the rules remove the ideals of honesty and integrity? Quite the contrary.

[Borderline Divine]

With enforcement, there is no honor in honor code.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I had an instance at BYU-Idaho with the honor code. I received a call from the honor code office asking me to come in. I had no idea why they were having me come in, but went ahead. When I got there the HCO asked why I was there. I told them I had no idea. She then started accusing me of being a liar and that this could cost me my spot at the university if I didn't come clean. I sat there for a few minutes continuing to deny any wrong doing. Then the HCO finally opened the folder read the file and explained that I had been turned in for wearing an earring. I started laughing which pissed off the HCO even more. I asked her if she could see any holes in my ears. She then said that doesn't matter they could be magnetic. She again said this could cost me my place at the University and it was up to me to show that I was not guilty and not the other way around. I left the office that day wondering if I would be kicked out of school for something I had never done and for something that was incredibly petty. I somehow found out who turned me in. It turns out that an RA in the dorms turned someone in with the same first name as me. Somehow the last names were mixed up. Of course no apologies were ever made. It was all done in the name of the Honor Code. The Honor Code is a good idea. But the enforcement really sucks.

So someone was threatening to throw you out of school over your inability to disprove the wearing of a magnetic earring?

And apparently, your attitude about the whole thing became part of the problem.

Yea, nothing unreasonable going on there.

[Art Vandelay]

I had an instance at BYU-Idaho with the honor code. I received a call from the honor code office asking me to come in. I had no idea why they were having me come in, but went ahead. When I got there the HCO asked why I was there. I told them I had no idea. She then started accusing me of being a liar and that this could cost me my spot at the university if I didn't come clean. I sat there for a few minutes continuing to deny any wrong doing. Then the HCO finally opened the folder read the file and explained that I had been turned in for wearing an earring. I started laughing which pissed off the HCO even more. I asked her if she could see any holes in my ears. She then said that doesn't matter they could be magnetic. She again said this could cost me my place at the University and it was up to me to show that I was not guilty and not the other way around. I left the office that day wondering if I would be kicked out of school for something I had never done and for something that was incredibly petty. I somehow found out who turned me in. It turns out that an RA in the dorms turned someone in with the same first name as me. Somehow the last names were mixed up. Of course no apologies were ever made. It was all done in the name of the Honor Code. The Honor Code is a good idea. But the enforcement really sucks.

That is insane. However, there seems to be lots of instance of heavy-handed interviews and possible intimidation, but very few examples where the HCO ever did anything more than threaten the unjustly accused. This isn't a defense of the HC or the system, but it appears, at least with the small sample size, the innocent are rarely actually kicked out of school.

So at least there's that...

[WashingtonCoug]

So someone was threatening to throw you out of school over your inability to disprove the wearing of a magnetic earring?

And apparently, your attitude about the whole thing became part of the problem.

Yea, nothing unreasonable going on there.

Believe me my attitude had nothing to do with it. I was scared out of my mind. When she said earrings, the only reaction I could muster was to laugh. The rest of the time I was in tears while she accused me. If I had been kicked out of school I would have seriously thought about suicide. I can't even imagine what Davies must be feeling. Even if he turned himself in, he's gotta be in a bad place.

[Jacob]

I had an instance at BYU-Idaho with the honor code. I received a call from the honor code office asking me to come in. I had no idea why they were having me come in, but went ahead. When I got there the HCO asked why I was there. I told them I had no idea. She then started accusing me of being a liar and that this could cost me my spot at the university if I didn't come clean. I sat there for a few minutes continuing to deny any wrong doing. Then the HCO finally opened the folder read the file and explained that I had been turned in for wearing an earring. I started laughing which pissed off the HCO even more. I asked her if she could see any holes in my ears. She then said that doesn't matter they could be magnetic. She again said this could cost me my place at the University and it was up to me to show that I was not guilty and not the other way around. I left the office that day wondering if I would be kicked out of school for something I had never done and for something that was incredibly petty. I somehow found out who turned me in. It turns out that an RA in the dorms turned someone in with the same first name as me. Somehow the last names were mixed up. Of course no apologies were ever made. It was all done in the name of the Honor Code. The Honor Code is a good idea. But the enforcement really sucks.

Classic!

The honor code enforcement is evil because someone once confused me with someone else.

[FMCoug]

I had an instance at BYU-Idaho with the honor code. I received a call from the honor code office asking me to come in. I had no idea why they were having me come in, but went ahead. When I got there the HCO asked why I was there. I told them I had no idea. She then started accusing me of being a liar and that this could cost me my spot at the university if I didn't come clean. I sat there for a few minutes continuing to deny any wrong doing. Then the HCO finally opened the folder read the file and explained that I had been turned in for wearing an earring. I started laughing which pissed off the HCO even more. I asked her if she could see any holes in my ears. She then said that doesn't matter they could be magnetic. She again said this could cost me my place at the University and it was up to me to show that I was not guilty and not the other way around. I left the office that day wondering if I would be kicked out of school for something I had never done and for something that was incredibly petty. I somehow found out who turned me in. It turns out that an RA in the dorms turned someone in with the same first name as me. Somehow the last names were mixed up. Of course no apologies were ever made. It was all done in the name of the Honor Code. The Honor Code is a good idea. But the enforcement really sucks.

I had something similar happen but when it was Ricks. My whole apartment got called in for breaking curfew. We had no idea what they were talking about becuase we never all did things together (it turns out it was our next door neighbors and the RA mixed up the apartments). Anyway I happened to be the only RM in the apartment. So the dude has me stay after everyone else leaves and chews me out even more because I"m supposed to be setting an example, etc. There was never any question in the guy's mind that we were lying when we denied it.

[Eddie]

Classic!

The honor code enforcement is evil because someone once confused me with someone else.

You have to admit that there are more issues than just the confusion of identity.

What about the classic cop technic of "do you know why I pulled you over?" in an attempt to get him to admit guilt of something - and really this is nothing more than a fishing expedition as she already had a certain allegation. Was she hoping he would admit to something else so that she could bank charges against him?

If she's going to play cop, at least she should marandize the guy.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Believe me my attitude had nothing to do with it. I was scared out of my mind. When she said earrings, the only reaction I could muster was to laugh. The rest of the time I was in tears while she accused me. If I had been kicked out of school I would have seriously thought about suicide. I can't even imagine what Davies must be feeling. Even if he turned himself in, he's gotta be in a bad place.

Oh, I'm not blaming you. It's difficult to overestimate the grimmness and officiousness of zealots.

"We are not amused" is part of their worldview.

[FMCoug]

Classic!

The honor code enforcement is evil because someone once confused me with someone else.

The "guilty until proven innocent" part doesn't bother you at all?

[thesaint258]

I'm fine with the HC, and I think enforcement is okay, but the way the HCO usually goes about enforcing the HC is the problem. I've heard a lot of stories like WashingtonCoug's and FM's. The way they enforce things is in desperate need of change.

[thesaint258]

The "guilty until proven innocent" part doesn't bother you at all?

Not to mention the fact that she didn't even initially tell him why he was there.