What do you suppose an Honor Code Office employee knocks down?

[Borderline Divine]

This is in no way an attempt to knock the LDS church. But it seems very peculiar that the church pays people money to listen to snitches and then kick kids out of school.

It must take a special kind of asshole to do that job. Knowing that the church is not famous for over-compensating it's employees, this special asshole is probably not making much money either.

[DU Ute]

This is in no way an attempt to knock the LDS church. But it seems very peculiar that the church pays people money to listen to snitches and then kick kids out of school.

It must take a special kind of asshole to do that job. Knowing that the church is not famous for over-compensating it's employees, this special asshole is probably not making much money either.

Yes, but think of the blessings and prestige!

[FMCoug]

This is in no way an attempt to knock the LDS church. But it seems very peculiar that the church pays people money to listen to snitches and then kick kids out of school.

It must take a special kind of asshole to do that job. Knowing that the church is not famous for over-compensating it's employees, this special asshole is probably not making much money either.

I imagine its the Mo culture version of the same guy that is proud of his job as an IRS auditor.

[Art Vandelay]

I'm likely wrong, since I usually am, but I kept imagining the HC employee who dealt with this as being a big Jimmer and basketball fan and being really internally torn having to do what his/her job required yesterday.

[Borderline Divine]

I'm likely wrong, since I usually am, but I kept imagining the HC employee who dealt with this as being a big Jimmer and basketball fan and being really internally torn having to do what his/her job required yesterday.

In this case it's probably so. Just the same these people make a living doing this to kids, athletes or not. Can't you just see this guy coming home at night?

Honey, Im home.
How was work, dear?
Oh the usual stuff, two beards, a low cut blouse and a can of chew.
Oh, thats nice, dear.
Not really. What I need is something juicy to impress the highers-up. Something like unmarried sex.
Would that be good for your job security, dear?
Yeah. But I hope it's not an athlete. That won't help. What I really need is a keg party off campus with a bunch of freshmen from Idaho or something. You know, something to show the bosses that I'm tough but nothing that embarrasses the school or the church. Nothing high-profile.
Oh that would be nice, dear.
Yes, I should be so blessed.

[Donuthole]

In this case it's probably so. Just the same these people make a living doing this to kids, athletes or not. Can't you just see this guy coming home at night?

Honey, Im home.
How was work, dear?
Oh the usual stuff, two beards, a low cut blouse and a can of chew.
Oh, thats nice, dear.
Not really. What I need is something juicy to impress the highers-up. Something like unmarried sex.
Would that be good for your job security, dear?
Yeah. But I hope it's not an athlete. That won't help. What I really need is a keg party off campus with a bunch of freshmen from Idaho or something. You know, something to show the bosses that I'm tough but nothing that embarrasses the school or the church. Nothing high-profile.
Oh that would be nice, dear.
Yes, I should be so blessed.

Have you ever considered changing your moniker to Borderline Benign?

[Sleeping in EQ]

I think one way to look at this challenge is:

1) Many of the things in the HC are worth keeping

but

2) The HCO and its enforcement of the HC are wrongheaded

[Jacob]

I think one way to look at this challenge is:

1) Many of the things in the HC are worth keeping

but

2) The HCO and the enforcement of the HC are wrongheaded

I haven't come across an instance where the HCO acted out of line with the HC. They merely enforce the HC. If you don't think the HC should be enforced, isn't that an argument against the HC, and not against the HCO?

[FMCoug]

I haven't come across an instance where the HCO acted out of line with the HC. They merely enforce the HC. If you don't think the HC should be enforced, isn't that an argument against the HC, and not against the HCO?

This entire concept of "enforcement" is what is wrong headed. Do we "enforce" the commandments? Should local wards and stakes have "enforcement" callings? Of course not.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I haven't come across an instance where the HCO acted out of line with the HC. They merely enforce the HC. If you don't think the HC should be enforced, isn't that an argument against the HC, and not against the HCO?

Ummm....no. FM's response is right on.

[Tex]

This entire concept of "enforcement" is what is wrong headed. Do we "enforce" the commandments? Should local wards and stakes have "enforcement" callings? Of course not.

The comparison of the HC to the commandments is wrong-headed on it's face, but I'll bite.

Ever heard of a disciplinary council?

[Shaka]

This entire concept of "enforcement" is what is wrong headed. Do we "enforce" the commandments? Should local wards and stakes have "enforcement" callings? Of course not.

Great idea! This will provide calling for those who previously had to have their bishop make one up for them!

We can call them the Ward Stasi. They will be a lot like the Sunday School Cop only with more power.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Jacob]

This entire concept of "enforcement" is what is wrong headed. Do we "enforce" the commandments? Should local wards and stakes have "enforcement" callings? Of course not.

Then there is no point of having an Honor Code. Change it to "A List of Things We Think are a Good Idea for Most People"

But an Honor Code is a set of rules and when a person breaks the rules, they face the sanctions.

Another alternative is to disagree with the sanctions. Perhaps that's what's meant by being opposed to the "enforcement." But an academic institution has few options for sanctions available at its disposal.

IMO, the Honor Code should only be for serious offenses, and expulsion should be the primary sanction.

In America, the first student-policed honor system was instituted in 1779 at The College of William & Mary at the behest of Virginia's then-Governor Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson, who graduated from William & Mary with honors in 1762, inked a basic honor system for his alma mater.
Jefferson later envisioned a similar honor system for his University of Virginia; it was at first based on strict laws limiting student behavior, but later based on student self-government.

The military academy honor codes not only govern the cadets' and mid-shipmen's lives at the academies, but are deemed essential to the development of military officers who are worthy of the public trust. As such, the codes are not limited merely to academic situations or to conduct on campus; cadets and midshipmen are expected to live by the codes' ethical standards at all times. Furthermore, they may not tolerate violations by other cadets-toleration itself being a violation of the code, with the exception of the Honor Concept of the Brigade of Midshipmen at the United States Naval Academy, which allows the observer of an honor violation to confront the accused without formally reporting.

[FMCoug]

The comparison of the HC to the commandments is wrong-headed on it's face, but I'll bite.

Ever heard of a disciplinary council?

Yep. Not a fan of those in most cases either. That said, if the HCO office operated like most stakes and wards do in regards to DC's it would be a huge step in the right direction. Last I checked, my Bishop has never encouraged me to be on the lookout for sinners in our midst to report so he can convene a council.

[WashingtonCoug]

I had an instance at BYU-Idaho with the honor code. I received a call from the honor code office asking me to come in. I had no idea why they were having me come in, but went ahead. When I got there the HCO asked why I was there. I told them I had no idea. She then started accusing me of being a liar and that this could cost me my spot at the university if I didn't come clean. I sat there for a few minutes continuing to deny any wrong doing. Then the HCO finally opened the folder read the file and explained that I had been turned in for wearing an earring. I started laughing which pissed off the HCO even more. I asked her if she could see any holes in my ears. She then said that doesn't matter they could be magnetic. She again said this could cost me my place at the University and it was up to me to show that I was not guilty and not the other way around. I left the office that day wondering if I would be kicked out of school for something I had never done and for something that was incredibly petty. I somehow found out who turned me in. It turns out that an RA in the dorms turned someone in with the same first name as me. Somehow the last names were mixed up. Of course no apologies were ever made. It was all done in the name of the Honor Code. The Honor Code is a good idea. But the enforcement really sucks.