Post tithing settlement thoughts...

[Moliere]

Wouldn't the credits in miles be an increase and, thus, be subject to tithes?

Only if I paid on gross

[hostile]

That's certainly true...just as a big wad of cash grabs your attention when someone pays like that. I guess my point was just that for me at least it was mostly forgotten by the time I got home, and certainly never discussed with anyone.

What grabs your attention even more is an envelope filled with loose change. Talk about adding time to the money counting. Fortunately it happens rarely.

[DrumNFeather]

What grabs your attention even more is an envelope filled with loose change. Talk about adding time to the money counting. Fortunately it happens rarely.

Haha, that's true, we'd get the occasional stack of quarters...always a good time.

[bluegoose]

What grabs your attention even more is an envelope filled with loose change. Talk about adding time to the money counting. Fortunately it happens rarely.

We have a family in our ward that saves all of their loose change throughout the year to donate it to the ward to be disbursed to needy families for Christmas. They are not well off at all, so this really is the widow's mite for them. A couple of years ago it was nearly $150 in change. No one really complained about having to count and wrap it, even though it seems like it added about 90 minutes to the process that day.

[DrumNFeather]

We have a family in our ward that saves all of their loose change throughout the year to donate it to the ward to be disbursed to needy families for Christmas. They are not well off at all, so this really is the widow's mite for them. A couple of years ago it was nearly $150 in change. No one really complained about having to count and wrap it, even though it seems like it added about 90 minutes to the process that day.

Perhaps they should make oversized envelopes for coin rolls and jumbo checks.

[Jeff Lebowski]

We have a family in our ward that saves all of their loose change throughout the year to donate it to the ward to be disbursed to needy families for Christmas. They are not well off at all, so this really is the widow's mite for them. A couple of years ago it was nearly $150 in change. No one really complained about having to count and wrap it, even though it seems like it added about 90 minutes to the process that day.

That is cool. Good for them.

[Solon]

I will also say this, I suspect, and I have no actual support for this other than my considered opinion, that the church doesn't encourage on line payments because they want people to feel connected to the donation process in a visceral way. They want there to be some contact between donee and donor. Handing the envelope to the bishop makes a personal connection paying on line doesn't allow, and it is a teaching moment for children. It also provides non-verbal encouragement to other members. All of that would be lost if on-line payment was the order of the day.

creekster, I think this is an interesting point. While I agree that there is merit in the sensory experience of filling an envelope with cash/check and handing it over to someone (somewhat similar to pulling a book of a library shelf instead of downloading it to a kindle), I think it implies that the money stays right there in the local jurisdiction, which isn't entirely true.

To me, that's just a little disingenuous. The church wants to seem grass-rootsy, but it's really highly centralized.

I also think tithing settlement is a shakedown to encourage more donations. Cynical, I know, but I can see no obvious reason for it.

[fusnik]

I still remember the time a guy dropped 150k in a cashiers check.

Of course you do.

Which is exactly the reason tithing shouldnt be paid to the local wards.

Creek wants us to pray in public, how unChristlike.

[Mormon Red Death]

My letter to Salt Lake: Donations@ldschurch.org

The church response: A crappy form letter

The preferable method of payment to the church is still to your local unit. Please note all donations are made to the general funds of the church and nothing is reported back to the local unit.

If you still wish to donate this way, here are the documents you will need to get setup with Billpay. Please fill out the form and return it to us. We will then set you up in our database and send you back an email letting you know when you can make your first contribution.

If you choose to use the billpay system, know you will receive a tax-valid receipt at the end of January and not at the beginning like at the local unit. Please let us know if you need anything else.

Thank you—

LDS Donations
50 East North Temple Street
Room 1521
Salt Lake City, UT 84150
Phone: 801-240-2554
Fax: 801-240-2202

[hostile]

We have a family in our ward that saves all of their loose change throughout the year to donate it to the ward to be disbursed to needy families for Christmas. They are not well off at all, so this really is the widow's mite for them. A couple of years ago it was nearly $150 in change. No one really complained about having to count and wrap it, even though it seems like it added about 90 minutes to the process that day.

That is great. In our ward a former counsellor was pretty outspoken about his dislike for loose change. So much so that several of the young men would go out of there way to pay their tithing with as many coins as possible.

[pellegrino]

So Pellegrino, I think enough time has passed for me to ask:

Why was your wife so furious? She told the Bishop the RS President was ignoring her needs, the Bishop told the RS President to quit ignoring your wife's (and other women) needs, the RS President probably swallowed her pride and promptly came to her to ask how she can do better, and your wife castigated her and went elsewhere? Then what was her purpose of talking to the Bishop? To get the RS President fired?

As I look back I realize I didn't tell the story all that well, and left out one crucial detail.

My wife went to the bishop (against my advice) to talk about the problems she felt the RS (not just her) was having. She went feeling that she was speaking in confidence with the bishop and that when talk to the RS president her name wouldn't be brought into it. She wasn't expecting the RS president to call her.

My wife was disappointed that the bishop used her name, but she was mad at the RS president (they're ) because when she asked her if the bishop had spoken with her the RS president said "No, I don't know what you're talking about. I just felt that I should call you and tell you about these activities that some sisters are sponsoring." It was within a few days of having spoken with the bishop and it seemed quite clear to my wife that for some reason the RS president was not being honest with her.

I should add that I didn't and don't condone my wife's actions.

I've come to realize since that experience that our ward can be very dysfunctional. Nearly all of the competing voices in Mormonism from the ultra-conservative, extremely literal to the ultra-metaphorical and extremely liberal are well represented in our ward. Those voices and pressures come to a head about every six weeks and have caused some serious fallout over the past year.

[myboynoah]

They were doing direct deposits years ago in Japan. I don't know if they still are - myboynoah?

Yes, if you pay in yen, it is done by bank transfer. But one still needs to get a deposit slip and physically take the money to an outlet (usually a convenience store) to make the transfer. As you know, that is very much how things are done in Japan. People don't write checks, they either pay in cash or do a bank transfer. So if one pays in yen, they now do a bank transfer, much like one could pay a phone bill.

Sadly, I was told that the move to the bank transfer was because The Church was losing to much of its leadership under the cash system. As you are also aware, Japanese have little problem carrying around thousands of dollars (even as much at $5 - $10 thousand) in yen to pay bills. That's quite a stack of bills when the largest bill equals only $100. I can imagine there was a lot of cash floating around church at year-end bonus time. Very tempting to borrow.

I pay in dollars and by check. I'm a Luddite. I suspect most others in our English-speaking unit pay directly to The Chruch in SLC online. We have a check scanner that reads the checks and makes the deposit electronically from here.

I will also say this, I suspect, and I have no actual support for this other than my considered opinion, that the church doesn't encourage on line payments because they want people to feel connected to the donation process in a visceral way. They want there to be some contact between donee and donor. Handing the envelope to the bishop makes a personal connection paying on line doesn't allow, and it is a teaching moment for children. It also provides non-verbal encouragement to other members. All of that would be lost if on-line payment was the order of the day.

I think there is a significant number of members that prefer this. I know mrs. myboynoah likes it, as well as year-end tithing settlement. It allows for a physical, participatory approach that many find fulfilling.

Not long ago when I was doing this, we still had dial up in our building...talk about taking forever.

Before we got MLS in France, it was a horrid, horrid system that could take all day. I would actually take the receipts home and do it later in the week to get access when no one else was dialing in.

Shouldn't the church want to make it as easy as possible to donate??

Yes, and for many people the easiest way is handing that check or cash inside the envelope to the Bishop on Sunday. I still do it that way.

Having served as FC on three continents (boom bitches!) I can see how an easier online system might benefit an unknown number of North American Saints, but it will have very limited utility for most Mormons outside the U.S. and Canada. The current system of handing an envelope to local leadership and then proccessing and depositing is fairly easily transferable across borders and probably even preferred by a lot, if not most, Mormons in the U.S. and Canada. As with most multinational organizations, uniformity in systems is the preferred approach.

That said, good luck with your quest!

[Mormon Red Death]

Having served as FC on three continents (boom bitches!) I can see how an easier online system might benefit an unknown number of North American Saints, but it will have very limited utility for most Mormons outside the U.S. and Canada. The current system of handing an envelope to local leadership and then proccessing and depositing is fairly easily transferable across borders and probably even preferred by a lot, if not most, Mormons in the U.S. and Canada. As with most multinational organizations, uniformity in systems is the preferred approach.

That said, good luck with your quest!

You and creekster are are unbelievable in your apologetics. Its really easy to be the most preferrable choice when you are the only choice. Offering an easy online solution would not be harder for the church. In fact, it would make things easier for the church. Is it that important for you guys to toe the company line that you have to fight a process that is way better for a large portion of its members?

[Mormon Red Death]

What it is as with most things with the church they do things the same way they did it in the 50s and 60s because in the 50s the leadership was in their prime and that is how they did it. The unintended consequence of 80 year olds running the church means that they are extremely behind the times on things that could make the members lives have less hassle.

[myboynoah]

You and creekster are are unbelievable in your apologetics. Its really easy to be the most preferrable choice when you are the only choice. Offering an easy online solution would not be harder for the church. In fact, it would make things easier for the church. Is it that important for you guys to toe the company line that you have to fight a process that is way better for a large portion of its members?

What????

I was just saying that your solution would probably not be viable for members outside the U.S. where most of The Church now resides. Having some experience with multinational organizations, I know they prefer consistent processes across borders. Your suggestion doesn't translate very well outside the U.S. and Canada without what I would expect are some significant adjustments. In contrast, the current system seems to work pretty well.

It's just my view that your suggestion has a limited audience within The Church. If The Church wants to focus on making it easier for that particular audience to pay tithing easier, then great.