I learned in church today

[Sleeping in EQ]

Yes, it was magically delicious.

[YOhio]

I learned that that the sacrament bread can be leprachaun green.

Awesome.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

Not going to church today.

I'm home with my puking 3 year old.

Watching Music and the Spoken Word this A.M.

The choir performed Mack Willberg's arrangement of Come Thou Fount.

Still puts me to tears... in spite of my waxing or waning stages of belief.

It used to be the music that touched me. Now it's the words.

I agree completely. The words of that hymn (regardless of whether it's in the current book) have always spoken strongly with my spirit. "Prone to wander...Prone to leave...Here's my heart..."

I like to think that it was removed from the hymnal just to preserve it and prevent it from getting butchered by some third time conducting chorister of a half attentive congregation. So for that, I give a solemn thank you to whomever made that call.

Between this song and Homeward Bound (the non-Simon and Garfunkel one) that were both sung by a capable choir at my father's funeral, we were all a mess. The Homeward Bound had special meaning to my father as he left the Eastern Idaho farm to get his architecture degree from the U.

[Marvin Hardtospell]

That hymn is by far my favourite as well. My soon to be sister-in-law is responsible for sorting out the hymns each Sunday for their branch in Germany. Seeing as it is included in the German Hymnal I request that we sing it each time I am visiting and she is happy to oblige.

[Donuthole]

My baby is now old enough to go to nursery, so I attended Sunday School and Priesthood for the first time in about 6 months yesterday. Our SS lesson was interesting, as the teacher (a "retired" attorney who still serves as a court-appointed arbitrator on matters under 50k) started out his lesson by asking if we could identify any groups of people who were generally pessimistic in their purpose or outlook. Someone mentioned cable news channels, someone mentioned talk radio personalities. I raised my hand and said "emergency preparedness advocates". Much to my delight, this resulted in a 10-minute digression from the lesson wherein the doomsday preppers in our ward (and there are many) defended their practices and reasoning, citing prophecies and conference talks. Ultimately, many agreed that it was a practice born out of a pessimistic outlook, irrespective of rationality.

Once that banter ended (with the preppers clearly feeling that they had successfully defended their craziness) the lesson moved on. It was all over the place, but the instructor seemed to be driving home the point that Jacob (BOM prophet) was a pessimistic guy with a poor outlook. This even elicited a comment from someone that Jacob's rant was the rant of a clinically depressed person.

It didn't get really interesting, however, until Priesthood, when the EQ president decided to spend the first 20 minutes on his soapbox lecturing about how disrespectful it was to insinuate that a prophet of God was depressed or that his writings were anything other than enlightening, uplifting, and inspired of God. The rebuke was "not directed at anyone specifically" even though it clearly was. Anyway, we then dived into an absolute atrocity of a lesson (the subject was fine, mind you, but the delivery was awful-- atypical EQ lesson on the fly).

[Moliere]

My baby is now old enough to go to nursery, so I attended Sunday School and Priesthood for the first time in about 6 months yesterday. Our SS lesson was interesting, as the teacher (a "retired" attorney who still serves as a court-appointed arbitrator on matters under 50k) started out his lesson by asking if we could identify any groups of people who were generally pessimistic in their purpose or outlook. Someone mentioned cable news channels, someone mentioned talk radio personalities. I raised my hand and said "emergency preparedness advocates". Much to my delight, this resulted in a 10-minute digression from the lesson wherein the doomsday preppers in our ward (and there are many) defended their practices and reasoning, citing prophecies and conference talks. Ultimately, many agreed that it was a practice born out of a pessimistic outlook, irrespective of rationality.

Once that banter ended (with the preppers clearly feeling that they had successfully defended their craziness) the lesson moved on. It was all over the place, but the instructor seemed to be driving home the point that Jacob (BOM prophet) was a pessimistic guy with a poor outlook. This even elicited a comment from someone that Jacob's rant was the rant of a clinically depressed person.

It didn't get really interesting, however, until Priesthood, when the EQ president decided to spend the first 20 minutes on his soapbox lecturing about how disrespectful it was to insinuate that a prophet of God was depressed or that his writings were anything other than enlightening, uplifting, and inspired of God. The rebuke was "not directed at anyone specifically" even though it clearly was. Anyway, we then dived into an absolute atrocity of a lesson (the subject was fine, mind you, but the delivery was awful-- atypical EQ lesson on the fly).

I'm so glad I don't attend EQ. I'm convinced my current calling is meant to keep me active, even if the bishop knows it or not.

[Donuthole]

I'm so glad I don't attend EQ. I'm convinced my current calling is meant to keep me active, even if the bishop knows it or not.

Yep. This was my first time attending EQ in nearly 3 years, after spending 2.5 years in YM and another 6 months roaming the halls (or home watching NFL/PGA/NBA) with my daughter. As entertaining as some bits were, I was quickly reminded how freaking boring that 2-hour window is.

[Pheidippides]

My baby is now old enough to go to nursery, so I attended Sunday School and Priesthood for the first time in about 6 months yesterday. Our SS lesson was interesting, as the teacher (a "retired" attorney who still serves as a court-appointed arbitrator on matters under 50k) started out his lesson by asking if we could identify any groups of people who were generally pessimistic in their purpose or outlook. Someone mentioned cable news channels, someone mentioned talk radio personalities. I raised my hand and said "emergency preparedness advocates". Much to my delight, this resulted in a 10-minute digression from the lesson wherein the doomsday preppers in our ward (and there are many) defended their practices and reasoning, citing prophecies and conference talks. Ultimately, many agreed that it was a practice born out of a pessimistic outlook, irrespective of rationality.

Once that banter ended (with the preppers clearly feeling that they had successfully defended their craziness) the lesson moved on. It was all over the place, but the instructor seemed to be driving home the point that Jacob (BOM prophet) was a pessimistic guy with a poor outlook. This even elicited a comment from someone that Jacob's rant was the rant of a clinically depressed person.

It didn't get really interesting, however, until Priesthood, when the EQ president decided to spend the first 20 minutes on his soapbox lecturing about how disrespectful it was to insinuate that a prophet of God was depressed or that his writings were anything other than enlightening, uplifting, and inspired of God. The rebuke was "not directed at anyone specifically" even though it clearly was. Anyway, we then dived into an absolute atrocity of a lesson (the subject was fine, mind you, but the delivery was awful-- atypical EQ lesson on the fly).

Wow. I have so many questions, the least of which is why your SS teacher was teaching about Jacob.

Nice job trolling the emergency peepers though.

[RC Vikings]

The genealogy of the concept of "perfection" reaches back beyond Latin, to Greek. The Greek equivalent of the Latin "perfectus" was "teleos." The latter Greek expression generally had concrete referents, such as a perfect physician or flutist, a perfect comedy or a perfect social system. Hence the Greek "teleiotes" was not yet so fraught with abstract and superlative associations as would be the Latin "perfectio" or the modern "perfection." To avoid the latter associations, the Greek term has generally been translated as "completeness" rather than "perfection."[3]

The teacher brought this up in HP group yesterday. "Completeness" seems a lot more attainable than perfection.

[Guest]

Does this remind anybody else of fast and testimony meeting? Please disregard the title of the video and listen to the people talk. It's interesting.

I'm sure there's been a fast and testimony meeting just like that somewhere. With different names of course.

[marsupial]

Sacrament meeting in Bridgetown, Barbados today. My wife won a trip by clicking a "like" button on the Facebook page of the swimsuit company she buys her swimwear from. Who knew those contests are real? Anyway I was only half on board with going last night but I'm glad we got out of bed and went. A really great meeting with about 35 wonderful fellow saints. The entire relief society presidency spoke and I enjoyed all of their talks, even the 2nd counselor who read most of hers from a manual.

I've been to church in Barbados... Long, long ago. That's where my bro served his mission.

[Moliere]

I learned that He Is Risen is still a beautiful hymn.

[Solon]

The genealogy of the concept of "perfection" reaches back beyond Latin, to Greek. The Greek equivalent of the Latin "perfectus" was "teleos." The latter Greek expression generally had concrete referents, such as a perfect physician or flutist, a perfect comedy or a perfect social system. Hence the Greek "teleiotes" was not yet so fraught with abstract and superlative associations as would be the Latin "perfectio" or the modern "perfection." To avoid the latter associations, the Greek term has generally been translated as "completeness" rather than "perfection."[3]

The teacher brought this up in HP group yesterday. "Completeness" seems a lot more attainable than perfection.

I put this together for a friend awhile back:

Matt. 5.48: Ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς “τέλειοι” ὡς ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ οὐράνιος τέλειός ἐστιν.

[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Definitions of τέλειος from the Liddell, Scott, Jones Greek-English Lexicon

—having reached its end, finished,
—perfect, of [sacrificial] victims, entire, without spot or blemish,
— of sacrifices, perfect, of full tale or number, or performed with all rites,
—fully constituted, valid,
—authoritative, final,
—full-grown, full-sized, adult
—accomplished, perfect in his kind, in relation to quality,
—absolute, fully, complete
—of prayers, vows, etc., fulfilled, accomplished,
—of numbers, full, complete,
—of the gods, having power to fulfil prayer, all-powerful
—finally, absolutely, with full authority,
—completely, absolutely, thoroughly



Other uses of τέλειος in the New Testament (with KJV translations)

Philippians 3.15 (Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded)
Romans 12.2 (test or “prove . . . [the] good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”)
1 Peter 1.13 (“to the end”)
1 John 4.18 (“perfect love”)
James 1.4 (“let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire”)
1 Corinthians 2.6 (“we speak wisdom among them that are perfect”)

• = “initiated”? (v. 7 refers to a mystery, similar to the language of ancient initiatory mystery-religions like the Eleusinian Mysteries or the Mysteries of Isis). See Welch comments in the link below.

Hebrews 5.14 (strong meat for those “of full age”)
Hebrews 9.11 (Christ is a “more perfect” tabernacle than the temple)
Ephesians 4.13 (Jesus as a “perfect man”)
Colossians 1.28 (“that we may present every man perfect in Christ”)


John Welch:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publ...=50&chapid=322

[All-American]

The genealogy of the concept of "perfection" reaches back beyond Latin, to Greek. The Greek equivalent of the Latin "perfectus" was "teleos." The latter Greek expression generally had concrete referents, such as a perfect physician or flutist, a perfect comedy or a perfect social system. Hence the Greek "teleiotes" was not yet so fraught with abstract and superlative associations as would be the Latin "perfectio" or the modern "perfection." To avoid the latter associations, the Greek term has generally been translated as "completeness" rather than "perfection."[3]

The teacher brought this up in HP group yesterday. "Completeness" seems a lot more attainable than perfection.

Right. "Be ye therefore perfect" is much less like telling someone to never ever sin and a lot more like telling a child to grow up. It's never gonna happen in a day.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Right. "Be ye therefore perfect" is much less like telling someone to never ever sin and a lot more like telling a child to grow up. It's never gonna happen in a day.

A good article about raising resilient children in this months Ensign talks about this. In fact it is out EQ lesson today.