Downton Abbey

[marsupial]

We just finished a two-week Dowtonpalooza, seasons 1 and 2.

The Dowager is the total best character of the bunch. After that, Mary. Matthew can be such a drama queen. Frankly, I grew tired of the Mr. Bates ordeal. So many promises to little Anna, all of them broken.

But I'd watch the show just for the Dowager. THE BEST.

I secretly wish that we find out that Bates really did off his wife. He is almost too good of a character. Also, he is old and fat and Anna is young and pretty. I have a hard time believing that she really fell in love with him.

[myboynoah]

I secretly wish that we find out that Bates really did off his wife. He is almost too good of a character. Also, he is old and fat and Anna is young and pretty. I have a hard time believing that she really fell in love with him.

Plus he has that limp. I felt the same way. I thought, "Really? Mr. Bates?" C'mon Anna, aim higher!

[creekster]

I secretly wish that we find out that Bates really did off his wife. He is almost too good of a character. Also, he is old and fat and Anna is young and pretty. I have a hard time believing that she really fell in love with him.

Old, fat guys need love too, you know. Besides, at least his feet Are clean. And let's be honest, Anna is a maid. How much higher can she aim? Not to go all Pelagius on everyone, but the whole point of their love is that they see what is noble in each other.

Why is everyone picking on bates?

[pelagius]

Old, fat guys need love too, you know. Besides, at least his feet Are clean. And let's be honest, Anna is a maid. How much higher can she aim? Not to go all Pelagius on everyone, but the whole point of their love is that they see what is noble in each other.

Why is everyone picking on bates?

Of course I agree with you about the Bates/Anna relationship. But I must admit I got very tired of the Bates/Anna story line (so melodramatic). Towards the end of season 2 I was fast forwarding through those parts.

[HauteCoug]

But Bates is just full of integrity and goodness - that's why she loves him. Sometimes we look past the pudge.

The one thing that was pointless was how they handled the impostor heir. A little obnoxious.

[creekster]

But Bates is just full of integrity and goodness - that's why she loves him. Sometimes we look past the pudge.

The one thing that was pointless was how they handled the impostor heir. A little obnoxious.

Spot on! On both counts. The impostor heir story line almost made me think that Fonzi was putting on the water skis, but thankfully it disappeared into the downton dustbin just in time. It was a loser.

[marsupial]

Old, fat guys need love too, you know. Besides, at least his feet Are clean. And let's be honest, Anna is a maid. How much higher can she aim? Not to go all Pelagius on everyone, but the whole point of their love is that they see what is noble in each other.

Why is everyone picking on bates?

He's a bit too noble. That is what I don't like about him. And Thomas is a bit too evil. At least Mrs. O'Brien is evil but shows glimmers of humanity. Bates and Thomas are too black and white.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Yes, Bandaged Patrick was a terrible idea that died a swift and merciful death. I was also disappointed that we didn't get to see the defense that Bates's attorney put on, but I'll simply assume it was borderline malpractice, as the circumstantial evidence seemed pretty weak.

But I enjoy the show very much, and the season finale was excellent. Dan Kois writing in Slate analyzes two of the best scenes and I wholeheartedly agree with him (I assume spoiler tags aren't necessary any longer):

The scene in which Lord Crawley sits down with Lady Mary and reveals that he knows about the Turkish gentleman could have easily become bathetic or embarrassingly cloying. But Fellowes expertly portrays both Mary’s shame and Robert’s firm belief that his daughter deserves happiness. The journey of this well-constructed conversation is Mary’s, as she comes to realize that her father has already moved through disappointment and outrage into acceptance of her mistake–there’s relief in Mary that she won’t have to face those stages, but real regret that she’s put her father through them. In the end, though, while they’re both emotional people, they’re also both tacticians, and watching them work together through the probable consequences of their plan is thrilling–a reminder that these two characters, different though they may be, are still of the same blood, and on the same side. [I especially loved that scene because (at the risk of becoming a bit bathetic myself) it represented the highest aspirations of any loving father--to help a daughter or son work through a problem and know that she/he is deeply loved, no matter what has happened--that was a deeply touching scene.]

Mary’s admission about Mr. Pamuk to Matthew later in the episode is even more fraught, and follows a different course. Here she must endure his traveling from confusion to disbelief to disappointment, all before her eyes. She must not belittle his absurd question of whether she loved Pamuk, and she must respect his anger when he responds badly to her joke about Tess of the d’Urbervilles. For his part, Matthew shows himself to be as strong as we might hope him to be, when he short-circuits his own reaction in order to focus on the matter he views, correctly, as more crucial: convincing Mary not to wed Sir Richard. “It isn’t worth buying off a month of scandal with a lifetime of misery,” he says as they walk the lawn. Perhaps Mary’s already made her decision by now, but simply treasures Matthew’s support. Or perhaps she doesn’t make her decision until this conversation helps her see that the scandal, bad as it may be, will not be the end of her life. She’s a storm-braver. So, on the evidence of this season, is Downton Abbey.

[creekster]

He's a bit too noble. That is what I don't like about him. And Thomas is a bit too evil. At least Mrs. O'Brien is evil but shows glimmers of humanity. Bates and Thomas are too black and white.

Is he too noble? Don't forget there is some evidence that he just offed his wife, shrew though she was. That isn't too noble. The question of whether Anna's faith is misplaced is, I think, very much at issue.

As to Thomas, I would have agreed with you but I think he is coming across as much more human these days. His whole Klinger-esque approach to avoiding further war service didn't turn out so well and his foray into the black market was a complete fiasco showing his James Dean facade to likely be just a cover for his insecurity. Evil, but not too much so. He is flawed in his defect, just like the rest of us.

That I was able to respond like this makes me think I need to add some Clint Eastwood movies to my Sunday line-up for the next few months lest I be AUstinized past the point of no return.

[UtahDan]

I really love this show. One of the things I like best is that they move the plot along. Maybe I have been watching too much Walking Dead but they advanced a bunch of story lines that I assumed they would unfold over a couple of seasons.

The other thing that they have done well so far is, and I'm struggling to articulate this right, basically not allow the "miscommunication" story lines to go on too long. The ones where the conflict would get resolved if the characters would just talk to each other and not martyr themselves. I totally get that the tension created by exactly that is a big part of what makes this show go, but if that gets drawn out too much I start to get annoyed because that is not how real people act. But thankfully every time I have started to think "okay, they need to resolve this tension" they do. Can't wait for season three.

Oh, and Batesy is the man.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Yes, Bandaged Patrick was a terrible idea that died a swift and merciful death. I was also disappointed that we didn't get to see the defense that Bates's attorney put on, but I'll simply assume it was borderline malpractice, as the circumstantial evidence seemed pretty weak.

But I enjoy the show very much, and the season finale was excellent. Dan Kois writing in Slate analyzes two of the best scenes and I wholeheartedly agree with him (I assume spoiler tags aren't necessary any longer):

The scene in which Lord Crawley sits down with Lady Mary and reveals that he knows about the Turkish gentleman could have easily become bathetic or embarrassingly cloying. But Fellowes expertly portrays both Mary’s shame and Robert’s firm belief that his daughter deserves happiness. The journey of this well-constructed conversation is Mary’s, as she comes to realize that her father has already moved through disappointment and outrage into acceptance of her mistake–there’s relief in Mary that she won’t have to face those stages, but real regret that she’s put her father through them. In the end, though, while they’re both emotional people, they’re also both tacticians, and watching them work together through the probable consequences of their plan is thrilling–a reminder that these two characters, different though they may be, are still of the same blood, and on the same side. [I especially loved that scene because (at the risk of becoming a bit bathetic myself) it represented the highest aspirations of any loving father--to help a daughter or son work through a problem and know that she/he is deeply loved, no matter what has happened--that was a deeply touching scene.]

Mary’s admission about Mr. Pamuk to Matthew later in the episode is even more fraught, and follows a different course. Here she must endure his traveling from confusion to disbelief to disappointment, all before her eyes. She must not belittle his absurd question of whether she loved Pamuk, and she must respect his anger when he responds badly to her joke about Tess of the d’Urbervilles. For his part, Matthew shows himself to be as strong as we might hope him to be, when he short-circuits his own reaction in order to focus on the matter he views, correctly, as more crucial: convincing Mary not to wed Sir Richard. “It isn’t worth buying off a month of scandal with a lifetime of misery,” he says as they walk the lawn. Perhaps Mary’s already made her decision by now, but simply treasures Matthew’s support. Or perhaps she doesn’t make her decision until this conversation helps her see that the scandal, bad as it may be, will not be the end of her life. She’s a storm-braver. So, on the evidence of this season, is Downton Abbey.

I loved the conversation between Mary and Lord Grantham. It was perhaps my favorite part of the whole season.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I really love this show. One of the things I like best is that they move the plot along. Maybe I have been watching too much Walking Dead but they advanced a bunch of story lines that I assumed they would unfold over a couple of seasons.

The other thing that they have done well so far is, and I'm struggling to articulate this right, basically not allow the "miscommunication" story lines to go on too long. The ones where the conflict would get resolved if the characters would just talk to each other and not martyr themselves. I totally get that the tension created by exactly that is a big part of what makes this show go, but if that gets drawn out too much I start to get annoyed because that is not how real people act. But thankfully every time I have started to think "okay, they need to resolve this tension" they do. Can't wait for season three.

Oh, and Batesy is the man.

I understand what you're talking about, and it was huge problem in 24. It got really annoying. Half of every season revolved around characters in constant CYA mode and they derived a lot of the drama out of the resulting lack of communication because of being in that mode.

[wally]

I have enjoyed watching this series with my wife. Do any of you experience a "soap-opera aftertaste" accompanying downton abby? I mean, someone dying during sex with an awkward coverup afterward, a person thought to be dead turning up with amnesia (face wrapped up like a mummy to boot), someone getting conned out of all their money, I could go on.

If season three introduces a long lost twin, or a secret a love-child of an venerable character, I am calling this a full-on soap opera simply dressed up like cinderella at the ball.

But I will still watch it. I feel a little weird, like when my burly grizzled father admitted that in college he was addicted to general hospital.

[marsupial]

I have enjoyed watching this series with my wife. Do any of you experience a "soap-opera aftertaste" accompanying downton abby? I mean, someone dying during sex with an awkward coverup afterward, a person thought to be dead turning up with amnesia (face wrapped up like a mummy to boot), someone getting conned out of all their money, I could go on.

If season three introduces a long lost twin, or a secret a love-child of an venerable character, I am calling this a full-on soap opera simply dressed up like cinderella at the ball.

But I will still watch it. I feel a little weird, like when my burly grizzled father admitted that in college he was addicted to general hospital.

Yes! Definitely soap opera after taste... Except I could use a little more sex in it. I guess that's why it's on PBS.

Also, could a doctor explain to me exactly why a young, supposedly healthy Turk would die during sex?

[PaloAltoCougar]

Also, could a doctor explain to me exactly why a young, supposedly healthy Turk would die during sex?

I'm not a physician, of course, but I assumed that his experience with Mary was so exquisite that, faced with his return to Turkey and the knowledge of what he would be missing, he was fatally crushed and debilitated under an intolerable weight of despair and regret.