The Official Big Ten Era Has Begun

[Paperback Writer]

Give me a criteria for the wild card and I may change my opinion.

I still think a criteria be a Non-P5 team as long as they are ranked in Top 10 etc.

Although the criteria is not publicized, it exists. There is a playoff committee. And they determined that Western Michigan is ranked #15. A ranking that I think is mostly accurate. I would be OK with a criteria that a conference could not have more than three teams because all the wildcard slots would be going to the same conference if more than three teams from a conference were allowed. How about being ranked in the top 8 as the criteria for a non-P5 team getting a playoff invite? That seems fair to me. And it might be necessary if there are several upsets in CCG games. Suppose several of the highly ranked favorites get upset on championship weekend and the final rankings have P5 conference champions ranked below a #8 ranked G5 team. It would be tempting to invite traditional powerhouses like Ohio St., USC, and Alabama who all lost their CCG at the expense of an undefeated Western Michigan. So if a G5 teams gets ranked at #8 or higher, they get an invite.

[Eddie]

... Suppose several of the highly ranked favorites get upset on championship weekend and the final rankings have P5 conference champions ranked below a #8 ranked G5 team. ....

That's a bummer. They should've won.

Sure - I'll give you that the P5 have a tougher schedule. But they also tend to get the benefit of the doubt if they lose a game. On the other hand, the G5 have everything...EVERYTHING...riding on each and every game. They don't get to slip up, not even once.

If the Michigan and Ohio States of the world don't like it, I'm guessing Western Michigan would trade them places and take their chances. I'll bet Michigan or Ohio State would kill it in the MAC and have a pretty good shot at the playoff most years.

[falafel]

I think progress has been made with including G5 teams in the post-season; Western Michigan is playing in the Cotton Bowl. But you are correct that the system has worked against G5 teams. I don't have an answer other than expanding the playoffs to 16 teams or more. Other than that, there would have to be a lot of parity or upsets during the football season for an undefeated G5 team to get a playoff invite. This season, I don't think Western Michigan is better than Michigan, Wisconsin, or USC and that the gap between them is substantial. However, I'm prepared to revisit that view after the Cotton Bowl.

Its funny that you bring this up as evidence of progress, when you are on record as saying you don't think WM should be there. Haha.

[wapiti]

Although the criteria is not publicized, it exists. There is a playoff committee. And they determined that Western Michigan is ranked #15. A ranking that I think is mostly accurate. I would be OK with a criteria that a conference could not have more than three teams because all the wildcard slots would be going to the same conference if more than three teams from a conference were allowed. How about being ranked in the top 8 as the criteria for a non-P5 team getting a playoff invite? That seems fair to me. And it might be necessary if there are several upsets in CCG games. Suppose several of the highly ranked favorites get upset on championship weekend and the final rankings have P5 conference champions ranked below a #8 ranked G5 team. It would be tempting to invite traditional powerhouses like Ohio St., USC, and Alabama who all lost their CCG at the expense of an undefeated Western Michigan. So if a G5 teams gets ranked at #8 or higher, they get an invite.

Just curious as to why a champion that's ranked 15 should get in but a G5 team that's ranked 15 shouldn't get in? Either make it the 8 best teams as determined by the committee or give auto-bids. If you go the route of the auto-bid then the highest ranked G5 should get one too.

A compromise position would be to make a threshold for the auto bid. If you have a threshold of the top 12 then you avoid an 8-4 team winning a bad division and then pulling off an upset in the conference championship game and getting into the playoff.

[Paperback Writer]

Its funny that you bring this up as evidence of progress, when you are on record as saying you don't think WM should be there. Haha.

I think West Michigan is deserving of a good bowl game not a spot in an 8-team playoff.

[dabrockster]

Although the criteria is not publicized, it exists. There is a playoff committee. And they determined that Western Michigan is ranked #15. A ranking that I think is mostly accurate. I would be OK with a criteria that a conference could not have more than three teams because all the wildcard slots would be going to the same conference if more than three teams from a conference were allowed. How about being ranked in the top 8 as the criteria for a non-P5 team getting a playoff invite? That seems fair to me. And it might be necessary if there are several upsets in CCG games. Suppose several of the highly ranked favorites get upset on championship weekend and the final rankings have P5 conference champions ranked below a #8 ranked G5 team. It would be tempting to invite traditional powerhouses like Ohio St., USC, and Alabama who all lost their CCG at the expense of an undefeated Western Michigan. So if a G5 teams gets ranked at #8 or higher, they get an invite.

My threshold is top 10. They get the WC slot . If no team is ranked that is a G5, then the committee determines who gets that slot.. No conference can have more than 3 teams.



In all seriousness, this 8-Team playoff will happen in 12 years and I will be interested in seeing how it plays out.

My hope is Big 12 cannot have a CCG unless they expand. I will be royally Lise if they are allowed to without expanding. That is total horseshit if they are allowed..


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[falafel]

I think West Michigan is deserving of a good bowl game not a spot in an 8-team playoff.

What is a "good bowl game" now that the playoff has been instituted? There is no such thing. There is the playoff, and there is the rest of the crap. Besides, even if they are "deserving," which game is going to choose them over a program like USC?

[Flystripper]

What is a "good bowl game" now that the playoff has been instituted? There is no such thing. There is the playoff, and there is the rest of the crap. Besides, even if they are "deserving," which game is going to choose them over a program like USC?

What is a good bowl game? Most bowls are pretty meaningless other than the added practice time, but i wouldn't say there is no such thing as a good bowl game. Do the bowls mean anything? Not really, but there is certainly value or good to be had for the fans and the program in playing a top 10 team in the Rose Bowl. On the other hand, playing Idaho in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl holds no value other than extra practice time.

[The_Douger]

I'd go 8 teams, 5 conference champions are auto bids with two wild cards from P5 and one from G5.

I could live with that. First round like Dec 15th at the homefield of the higher rated team. Then bowls how we go now.

[Paperback Writer]

Historically, I think G5 teams have a pretty good record in the NY6 or BCS bowl games. That tells me that an autobid for the G5 into an 8 team playoff is probably warranted as much as an autobid for any other conference. There are more than 50 G5 teams. The best of that bunch is going to be a really good team more often than not.

Autobids are designed to let a team that might not be one of the 8 best teams into the playoff. Yes, sometimes the highest G5 might not really be a top 8 team. But that's also true for at least one P5 conference champion almost every year.

Just curious as to why a champion that's ranked 15 should get in but a G5 team that's ranked 15 shouldn't get in? Either make it the 8 best teams as determined by the committee or give auto-bids. If you go the route of the auto-bid then the highest ranked G5 should get one too.

A compromise position would be to make a threshold for the auto bid. If you have a threshold of the top 12 then you avoid an 8-4 team winning a bad division and then pulling off an upset in the conference championship game and getting into the playoff.

You raise a good point on why a P5 team playing in a weak division or losing OOC game(s) and then upsetting a team in the CCG should get a bid and not a G5 team ranked just as high. There are probably several instances of this, one that comes to mind is 1996 Nebraska when they were upset by Texas in the first Big 12 CCG. Texas finished the season 8-5 after losing in the Fiesta Bowl but under my scenario they would have gotten a play-off invite. My reasoning is based on making conference championships matter, why else play them if not playing in one gives a team an advantage (2016 Ohio St.) or the results don't matter (2016 Penn St. and potentially 2016 Alabama)? But that approach seems biased against G5 teams who win their conferences and don't reach a ranking high enough (I proposed a #8 ranking) to receive a playoff berth. My view is that the quality of football in P5 conferences vs non-P5 conferences is apples and oranges. I've already stated that I think there are perhaps five Big Ten teams that would have gone undefeated playing Western Michigan's schedule.

I decided to review the G5 record in NY6 bowl games and found two instances where a G5 team defeated a P5 team where that team would not have received an auto bid under my scenario (receive a #8 ranking or higher and get an invite). Those teams were 2015 Houston and 2013 Central Florida. I don't include 2014 Boise St. (2 losses) or the following teams due to their high ranking: 2010 TCU, 2009 Boise St., 2008 Utah, 2006 Boise St., 2004 Utah, and 1996 BYU. That's two teams over the past 20 years of NY6 bowls who may have had a claim to a playoff spot in an 8-team playoff. Is that enough to give an auto bid every year to a G5 team or disregard P5 conference champions? Here's my data. Apologize in advance for any errors but I think the data is good.

Year	Bowl	Record	Ranking	G5 Team	Score	P5 Opponent	Score	Record	Ranking
2015	Peach	12-1	18	Houston	38	Florida St.	24	10-2	9
2014	Fiesta	11-2	20	Boise St.	38	Arizona	30	10-3	9
2013	Fiesta	11-1	15	Central Florida	52	Baylor	42	11-1	6
2013	Orange	12-1	10	N. Illinois	10	Florida St.	31	11-2	12
2010	Rose	12-0	3	TCU	21	Wisconsin	19	11-1	5
2009	Fiesta	13-0	6	Boise St.	17	TCU	10	12-0	4
2009	Sugar	12-0	3	Cincinnati	24	Florida	51	12-1	5
2008	Orange	11-2	7	Cincinnati	7	Virginia Tech	20	9-4	19
2008	Sugar	12-0	6	Utah	31	Alabama	17	12-1	4
2007	Sugar	12-0	10	Hawaii	10	Georgia	41	10-2	5
2006	Fiesta	12-0	8	Boise St.	43	Oklahoma	42	11-2	10
2004	Fiesta	11-0	6	Utah	35	Pittsburgh	7	8-3	21
1996	Cotton	13-1	5	BYU	19	Kansas St.	15	9-2	14

[falafel]

What is a good bowl game? Most bowls are pretty meaningless other than the added practice time, but i wouldn't say there is no such thing as a good bowl game. Do the bowls mean anything? Not really, but there is certainly value or good to be had for the fans and the program in playing a top 10 team in the Rose Bowl. On the other hand, playing Idaho in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl holds no value other than extra practice time.

That is precisely my point. Interesting that you reference the Rose Bowl. That would certainly be considered a "good bowl game" in my mind. But what chance does WM have of getting into that game? Especially since it is historically tied to the P12 and the Big 10. The reality is that there are no "good bowl games" for teams like Western Michigan. That's why they need to be included in the playoff in an 8 team scenario.

[Flystripper]

That is precisely my point. Interesting that you reference the Rose Bowl. That would certainly be considered a "good bowl game" in my mind. But what chance does WM have of getting into that game? Especially since it is historically tied to the P12 and the Big 10. The reality is that there are no "good bowl games" for teams like Western Michigan. That's why they need to be included in the playoff in an 8 team scenario.

I think we agree. I am in favor of a team like WM getting in an 8 team playoff.

[Paperback Writer]

That is precisely my point. Interesting that you reference the Rose Bowl. That would certainly be considered a "good bowl game" in my mind. But what chance does WM have of getting into that game? Especially since it is historically tied to the P12 and the Big 10. The reality is that there are no "good bowl games" for teams like Western Michigan. That's why they need to be included in the playoff in an 8 team scenario.

The Cotton Bowl is a "good bowl game" for Western Michigan. They have defeated three teams with winning records, by all means give them a playoff spot and line them up against Alabama. I'm starting to think the playoff committee's #15 ranking of Western Michigan is overly generous.

[smokymountainrain]

With an 8 team playoff, you have 5 conference champions, two wild cards from p5, if you don't make it as one of those 7, chances are you have 2 or more losses. The top G5 is either undefeated or has one loss. I won't mourn any 2 or more loss team for not getting in the playoff. it's simple - you want in, don't lose 2 or games. keeps the regular season meaningful.

[Eddie]

Year	Bowl	Record	Ranking	G5 Team	Score	P5 Opponent	Score	Record	Ranking
2015	Peach	12-1	18	Houston	38	Florida St.	24	10-2	9
2014	Fiesta	11-2	20	Boise St.	38	Arizona	30	10-3	9
2013	Fiesta	11-1	15	Central Florida	52	Baylor	42	11-1	6
2013	Orange	12-1	10	N. Illinois	10	Florida St.	31	11-2	12
2010	Rose	12-0	3	TCU	21	Wisconsin	19	11-1	5
2009	Fiesta	13-0	6	Boise St.	17	TCU	10	12-0	4
2009	Sugar	12-0	3	Cincinnati	24	Florida	51	12-1	5
2008	Orange	11-2	7	Cincinnati	7	Virginia Tech	20	9-4	19
2008	Sugar	12-0	6	Utah	31	Alabama	17	12-1	4
2007	Sugar	12-0	10	Hawaii	10	Georgia	41	10-2	5
2006	Fiesta	12-0	8	Boise St.	43	Oklahoma	42	11-2	10
2004	Fiesta	11-0	6	Utah	35	Pittsburgh	7	8-3	21
1996	Cotton	13-1	5	BYU	19	Kansas St.	15	9-2	14

In the years that Cinncy was in a BCS game, weren't they part of a P5 conference? (Um...P6 at the time?) Not sure they count with the rest of this data, but I get what you're saying.