Wah-hoo-wah! BYU @ Virginia

[Shaka]

Please point me to quotes from parents saying that they don't want their kids to be around too many smart kids. Getting a full-ride scholarship to a school with high academic standards is a recruiting advantage.

My niece, who's currently finishing up a nursing degree, chose UVU over BYU. One of the reasons was she didn't want to attend BYU was she didn't feel like she fit in as well at BYU. Part of the reason was the student body. Her parents, both BYU alumni, supported the decision because they feel the culture at BYU has changed.

Some people factor in things other than academics when choosing a school.


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[Shaka]

It is a bogus argument that nothing to do with independence or recruiting. BYU has been a geek fest for decades.

That's not true. I arrived in '88 and BYU had a pretty diverse student body. There were a lot of folks attending who's focus in high school were things other than academics. That changed started to change as the academic standards became increasingly rigid in the nineties. I was literally present as the evolution took place. Many of my friends never would have been accepted with today's a academic standards. Yes BYU became more geeky in the nineties.


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[woot]

Just read Ogletree's blog post, in which he writes:

I would like to see Taysom move out of the pocket more. Coach Anae has forgotten more football then I’ll ever know, so surely he has his reasons for keeping the quarterback in the pocket. But when the offensive line is having a difficult time creating throwing windows and you have a quarterback as athletic as Taysom, it could help him to give him an extra second to allow routes to develop and let receivers get open by rolling him out. This also puts defenders in a bind, having to cover a route while a ball carrying QB is threatening the flat.

I disagree with this. People constantly said this about Denard, but it just doesn't work. It makes sense, since a QB with more running than passing ability should play to their strengths, but the reason why Taysom and Denard were/are kept in the pocket is because when you're not a great passer to begin with, it doesn't make sense to handicap that ability even further by trying to throw on the run. QBs who can pull that off are absolutely deadly, but they are not very common. Maybe Taysom will gain that ability eventually, but he doesn't seem to have it right now.

It's better to just have one or two quick and easy reads, and have the 2nd/3rd option be to tuck it. This utilizes the QB's running skill while also allowing him to set his feet when he does throw. That seems like what Anae is doing, and is what RichRod did with Denard.

Edit: I should point out that Denard actually wasn't any good at scrambling as a 2nd/3rd option, contrary to seemingly universal opinion. 95% of his rushing yards came on called rushes. I don't know what the deal was, but the guy just refused to tuck it and run. M's current QB is a lot better at that, making the passing game a lot more dangerous.

[UVACoug]

My niece, who's currently finishing up a nursing degree, chose UVU over BYU. One of the reasons was she didn't want to attend BYU was she didn't feel like she fit in as well at BYU. Part of the reason was the student body. Her parents, both BYU alumni, supported the decision because they feel the culture at BYU has changed.

Some people factor in things other than academics when choosing a school.


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More power to her. It's still a lame argument and I would be shocked to find too many parents who would not want their kid to go to BYU because there were too many "geeks" there. Most parents want their kids to have a better education, not a worse one.

[Flystripper]

That's not true. I arrived in '88 and BYU had a pretty diverse student body. There were a lot of folks attending who's focus in high school were things other than academics. That changed started to change as the academic standards became increasingly rigid in the nineties. I was literally present as the evolution took place. Many of my friends never would have been accepted with today's a academic standards. Yes BYU became more geeky in the nineties.


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The 90s were 20 years ago...

[myboynoah]

My niece, who's currently finishing up a nursing degree, chose UVU over BYU. One of the reasons was she didn't want to attend BYU was she didn't feel like she fit in as well at BYU. Part of the reason was the student body. Her parents, both BYU alumni, supported the decision because they feel the culture at BYU has changed.

Some people factor in things other than academics when choosing a school.


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To each their own, but that sounds strange. Getting into the BYU nursing program is crazy competitive. I wonder what effect that had on their decision.

[Shaka]

More power to her. It's still a lame argument and I would be shocked to find too many parents who would not want their kid to go to BYU because there were too many "geeks" there. Most parents want their kids to have a better education, not a worse one.

Hey this one will hit close to JL but I've also heard alumni parents who aren't enthused because they don't think the quality of the faculty has kept pace with the quality of the students. It's an opinion but are they wrong?


Say you're a minimum qualifier LDS kid who has done a bit of partying in high school and likes to have a good time. This kid wants to do better in college but doesn't really value academics over other lifestyle issues. He shows up at BYU for his visit, gets a good idea of the student population, gets beat over the head with the honor code, Factors in a challenging academic environment that he may or may not be able to handle, and wonders why a majority of the hot chicks in the area go to UVU. Then the kid takes his visit to ASU and has a completely different experience. The LDS chicks are hot, most of the students are more like his friends in high school, and he's not going to get tossed out of school if he happens to slip up.

I get that you guys think BYU can do no wrong. I happen to disagree. I think it's changed into a place where high school Shaka (who cared far more about dating hot chicks, playing sports, and having great experiences with his friends that he did about academics) would have reservations about attending.

[Shaka]

To each their own, but that sounds strange. Getting into the BYU nursing program is crazy competitive. I wonder what effect that had on their decision.

UVU also has a competitive nursing program.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My niece, who's currently finishing up a nursing degree, chose UVU over BYU. One of the reasons was she didn't want to attend BYU was she didn't feel like she fit in as well at BYU. Part of the reason was the student body. Her parents, both BYU alumni, supported the decision because they feel the culture at BYU has changed.

Some people factor in things other than academics when choosing a school.

Other than academics? Are you changing your argument now? You very specifically said that the high academic standards were a recruiting disadvantage.

What if your niece had been offered a four-year, full-ride scholarship to BYU? You think she would have turned that down due to too many smart kids at BYU? You think her parents would have pushed her to turn it down for that reason?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hey this one will hit close to JL but I've also heard alumni parents who aren't enthused because they don't think the quality of the faculty has kept pace with the quality of the students. It's an opinion but are they wrong?

lol. Now you are really desperate.

I would say that those alumni parents are really lousy at doing basic research. The quality of the newer faculty (on average) is way up in every way you can measure: degrees from top schools, publication rates, student ratings, etc. This is an easy thing to verify.

I get that you guys think BYU can do no wrong. I happen to disagree.

Straw man.

[lambdacoug]

My niece, who's currently finishing up a nursing degree, chose UVU over BYU. One of the reasons was she didn't want to attend BYU was she didn't feel like she fit in as well at BYU. Part of the reason was the student body. Her parents, both BYU alumni, supported the decision because they feel the culture at BYU has changed.

Some people factor in things other than academics when choosing a school.


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Nursing students choosing a less selective nursing program than BYU? I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing...

[Shaka]

Other than academics? Are you changing your argument now? You very specifically said that the high academic standards were a recruiting disadvantage.

What if your niece had been offered a four-year, full-ride scholarship to BYU? You think she would have turned that down due to too many smart kids at BYU? You think her parents would have pushed her to turn it down for that reason?

She wasn't offered a schollie so it's not even part of the argument. Had she been offered one it would have factored into her decision. However the schollie wouldn't have been the only thing that factored into her decision.

I have nothing against smart kids. My best friend in high school and college roommate received an academic schollie to BYU. However he and I were completely different animals in high school and that didn't change in college. Things I valued in choosing a school were far different than what he valued. Other than the time we spent together we hung with entirely different crowds. I'd be off cruising women, hitting parties, playing in bands, and playing hockey while he would be stuck in the library studying. Yes I studied but I didn't hit it nearly as hard as he did. These days both of us own the same size home, have toys, and have similar bank balances and retirement savings. In fact he manages my retirement. In the end we ended up pretty equal in spite of having two different paths.

[MarkGrace]

If you disagree then please tell me why we lacking offensive linemen. I'm sure there are other viable reasons.


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Again, like the discussion last night, you're looking at something specific by using a generality. There has to be something more to it, as you can go position by position and find as much talent now as you can on previous BYU teams. RB, WR, D-line, LBer's, Safeties, Corners, even QB (though it seems we've struggled a little more to get it to materialize) have all had talent comparable to what you'd typically see at BYU. It seems that the O-line is really the only group where the talent has been down any material amount relative to what you'd expect. So for me it's hard to say recruiting is down, when all the other positions on the field are mostly in line with expectations except for that group. Why is that? I threw out a lot of questions last night. Probably just a mix of all the things I was tossing out.

[Shaka]

Nursing students choosing a less selective nursing program than BYU? I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing...

You must have bad hearing.

[Shaka]

Again, like the discussion last night, you're looking at something specific by using a generality. There has to be something more to it, as you can go position by position and find as much talent now as you can on previous BYU teams. RB, WR, D-line, LBer's, Safeties, Corners, even QB (though it seems we've struggled a little more to get it to materialize) have all had talent comparable to what you'd typically see at BYU. It seems that the O-line is really the only group where the talent has been down any material amount relative to what you'd expect. So for me it's hard to say recruiting is down, when all the other positions on the field are mostly in line with expectations except for that group. Why is that? I threw out a lot of questions last night. Probably just a mix of all the things I was tossing out.

I was simply tossing out reasons as well which led us down the current rabbit hole. Personally I think that quality linemen are harder to find than a couple of inside linebackers. Part of the problem is the line takes up five of the eleven positions on the offense. You simply need more of them.