Cache Cows! Who needs a (General) Conference?

[Shaka]

Amen. I thought the QB controversy ended with Jake transferring.

How could you think that?

Wasn't it conventional wisdom that Riley would have to sit out games this year due to injury and that a replacement would get a shot? It's almost automatic that there would be a QB controversy in this scenario.

[Eddie]

Like I said before, I don't see what Bronco has to gain with this man crush on Riley. I get that he likes the kid, but good hell, enough is enough! If the kid can't go he can't go, there's no reason to string everyone along because of some emotional attachment.

I understand wanting to see the kid succeed. But then I recall that there are more than 100 kids on the team, 85 of them have scholarships, and only 22 get to be starters. Bronco doesn't seem to have as difficult a time telling the other 80% and 75% of scholarship players on his team that they just aren't good enough to start.

I think this a part of Bronco that is hard for me to figure out. He is EXTREMELY loyal to some players - to the point that it seems he would prefer to go down with the ship and lose his job rather than not play them - and seems to treat others like a pair of dirty socks.

[smokymountainrain]

How could you think that?

Wasn't it conventional wisdom that Riley would have to sit out games this year due to injury and that a replacement would get a shot? It's almost automatic that there would be a QB controversy in this scenario.

The other way to look at it is that Surfah is correct, that particular controversy did end with Heap's transferring. But that doesn't mean another can't happen if the starter does get injured or plays like shit over the course of a few games.

[Surfah]

How could you think that?

Wasn't it conventional wisdom that Riley would have to sit out games this year due to injury and that a replacement would get a shot? It's almost automatic that there would be a QB controversy in this scenario.

So you expected a QB controversy this season? I think most felt that with Jake gone the team was firmly Riley's and nobody would challenge him. But it seems that Riley who wrestled the team from Jake (maybe he never had it) only has Bronco in his corner now. It certainly wasn't automatic that a true freshman would be elevated to second string and then get the starting job over a senior. And I don't think anybody expected Taysom to come in and rush for 250+ yards in 5 quarters worth of football.

My main point is there shouldn't be any QB controversy right now. I don't think Riley even at 100% is good enough to beat some of the teams we have coming up, certainly not at 75% or whatever he is right now. Everyone but Bronco has moved past Riley. Turn the team over to the clear heir and let him ride out the season. I don't think Riley wins us any more games than Taysom would this year. This is the exact same thing that happened last year. Three years now and Bronco and company don't seem to know how to handle the most important position in sports.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

So you expected a QB controversy this season? I think most felt that with Jake gone the team was firmly Riley's and nobody would challenge him.

Have there been reports that Riley has fallen out of favor with the team? I've missed them.

Last year the controversy started because Riley was not only the better option to win games, but the team choice as well. This year despite his lacking play, there does not seem to be even rumors of the team support for Riley leaving.

[Art Vandelay]

So you expected a QB controversy this season? I think most felt that with Jake gone the team was firmly Riley's and nobody would challenge him. But it seems that Riley who wrestled the team from Jake (maybe he never had it) only has Bronco in his corner now. It certainly wasn't automatic that a true freshman would be elevated to second string and then get the starting job over a senior. And I don't think anybody expected Taysom to come in and rush for 250+ yards in 5 quarters worth of football.

My main point is there shouldn't be any QB controversy right now. I don't think Riley even at 100% is good enough to beat some of the teams we have coming up, certainly not at 75% or whatever he is right now. Everyone but Bronco has moved past Riley. Turn the team over to the clear heir and let him ride out the season. I don't think Riley wins us any more games than Taysom would this year. This is the exact same thing that happened last year. Three years now and Bronco and company don't seem to know how to handle the most important position in sports.

Is there any indication that is true among the players? I don't know. However, RN seems to be well respected by his teammates (or was before the Utah and BSU debacles). I have no idea how Taysom is perceived. I don't think should be the deciding factor into who starts and who doesn't. I'm just curious of how those who play, versus those of us who just pontificate, actually feel.

[Surfah]

Have there been reports that Riley has fallen out of favor with the team? I've missed them.

Last year the controversy started because Riley was not only the better option to win games, but the team choice as well. This year despite his lacking play, there does not seem to be even rumors of the team support for Riley leaving.

I am not sure there is anything public about Riley falling out of favor with the team (aside from recent reports about a rift between Doman and Bronco concerning RN. But he isn't as popular as he once may have been among some teammates privately.

I disagree with your assertion that he was the better option to win last year. I think with Jake at the helm we have the same record except I'll concede a loss to Utah State.

I was being hyperbolic and generalizing to include the fan base when I said everyone has moved past RN. But it's time to for everyone if they haven't already. Like DDD said, he's nothing more than a distraction to this team right now.

[Guest]

I am not sure there is anything public about Riley falling out of favor with the team (aside from recent reports about a rift between Doman and Bronco concerning RN. But he isn't as popular as he once may have been among some teammates privately.

I disagree with your assertion that he was the better option to win last year. I think with Jake at the helm we have the same record except I'll concede a loss to Utah State.

I was being hyperbolic and generalizing to include the fan base when I said everyone has moved past RN. But it's time to for everyone if they haven't already. Like DDD said, he's nothing more than a distraction to this team right now.

Jake was complete Dog Shit last year. I bet BYU would have won the Texas game and I doubt our team would have fallen apart like they did in the Utah game under Riley. Riley's biggest problem this year simply has been trying to play when hurt to the detriment of the team. I would like to say it was his competitive fire or grit but I also believe paranoia played a role in him not wanting to come out as he doesn't not want to lose something he has fought so desperately to get.

I also blame Doman for the shitty play calling. He simply has no creativity at all and refused to use Utah and Boise's aggressiveness against them with counters, reverses, or swing passes to the RBs. Nor did he ever try throwing deep in either of those games.

[Surfah]

Jake was complete Dog Shit last year. I bet BYU would have won the Texas game and I doubt our team would have fallen apart like they did in the Utah game under Riley. Riley's biggest problem this year simply has been trying to play when hurt to the detriment of the team. I would like to say it was his competitive fire or grit but I also believe paranoia played a role in him not wanting to come out as he doesn't not want to lose something he has fought so desperately to get.

I also blame Doman for the shitty play calling. He simply has no creativity at all and refused to use Utah and Boise's aggressiveness against them with counters, reverses, or swing passes to the RBs. Nor did he ever try throwing deep in either of those games.

Doman is supposed to call counters and reverses with an OL that can't block? I would have liked to have seen some screens though. It's a play the OL can block. But then you have to worry about Riley completing passes to the nose tackle. It's also tough to stretch the field with Riley's arm.

[Shaka]

So you expected a QB controversy this season? I think most felt that with Jake gone the team was firmly Riley's and nobody would challenge him. But it seems that Riley who wrestled the team from Jake (maybe he never had it) only has Bronco in his corner now. It certainly wasn't automatic that a true freshman would be elevated to second string and then get the starting job over a senior. And I don't think anybody expected Taysom to come in and rush for 250+ yards in 5 quarters worth of football.

My main point is there shouldn't be any QB controversy right now. I don't think Riley even at 100% is good enough to beat some of the teams we have coming up, certainly not at 75% or whatever he is right now. Everyone but Bronco has moved past Riley. Turn the team over to the clear heir and let him ride out the season. I don't think Riley wins us any more games than Taysom would this year. This is the exact same thing that happened last year. Three years now and Bronco and company don't seem to know how to handle the most important position in sports.

Of course I did. How could anyone not? After Riley had success last year most of his critics shut up for a while waiting to see how this year played out. However almost everyone thought Riley would miss games due to injury and possibly struggle against a tough opponent. I knew that when the injury or struggle came the now quiet Riley critics would erupt with a vengeance. Of course said critics conveniently forget that Riley should never have been playing against Utah or BSU. Failure to sit Riley down when he was injured is on the coaches because it's not reasonable to expect him to perform. To me we still haven't seen if a healthy Riley can beat tougher competition this season because he was too injured to to be effective when he played that competition. Personally I think if Riley was healthy for the Utah or BSU games BYU wins both games.

Also I disagree that everyone has moved beyond Riley and that includes Doman.

[Shaka]

Jake was complete Dog Shit last year. I bet BYU would have won the Texas game and I doubt our team would have fallen apart like they did in the Utah game under Riley. Riley's biggest problem this year simply has been trying to play when hurt to the detriment of the team. I would like to say it was his competitive fire or grit but I also believe paranoia played a role in him not wanting to come out as he doesn't not want to lose something he has fought so desperately to get.

I also blame Doman for the shitty play calling. He simply has no creativity at all and refused to use Utah and Boise's aggressiveness against them with counters, reverses, or swing passes to the RBs. Nor did he ever try throwing deep in either of those games.

This. Riley should have been shut down until he was healthy.

[Shaka]

Doman is supposed to call counters and reverses with an OL that can't block? I would have liked to have seen some screens though. It's a play the OL can block. But then you have to worry about Riley completing passes to the nose tackle. It's also tough to stretch the field with Riley's arm.

This is where you and a lot of BYU fans go wrong. You're judging him harshly for UTah and BSU when he was clearly not able to play his game due to being injured.

[Surfah]

Of course I did. How could anyone not? After Riley had success last year most of his critics shut up for a while waiting to see how this year played out. However almost everyone thought Riley would miss games due to injury and possibly struggle against a tough opponent. I knew that when the injury or struggle came the now quiet Riley critics would erupt with a vengeance. Of course said critics conveniently forget that Riley should never have been playing against Utah or BSU. Failure to sit Riley down when he was injured is on the coaches because it's not reasonable to expect him to perform. To me we still haven't seen if a healthy Riley can beat tougher competition this season because he was too injured to to be effective when he played that competition. Personally I think if Riley was healthy for the Utah or BSU games BYU wins both games.

Also I disagree that everyone has moved beyond Riley and that includes Doman.

I agree that we beat BSU or Utah with a healthy Riley. But those also aren't good teams.

[Guest]

Doman is supposed to call counters and reverses with an OL that can't block? I would have liked to have seen some screens though. It's a play the OL can block. But then you have to worry about Riley completing passes to the nose tackle. It's also tough to stretch the field with Riley's arm.

You are right about the OL to some degree. I don't think their pass protection has been too bad but play calling can have an impact on how the Defense rushes the passer too. Towards the end of the Utah game, the Utes were blitzing and bringing at least 6 or 7 guys on every play. A screen would have been great.

Also, that dumb ass pass to Ross Apo, where he is lined up behind Hoffman is terrible. Everyone knows who is getting the ball yet there has never been a play where the QB pump fakes to Apo and throws elsewhere. The QB throws it and Apo gets his 3-5 yards maybe. THIS TO ME is our problem. Good teams will blow that up just about every time.

[Surfah]

This is where you and a lot of BYU fans go wrong. You're judging him harshly for UTah and BSU when he was clearly not able to play his game due to being injured.

I am judging him against his body of work. Go back to last year when he wasn't hurt and playing against decent to good competition. He struggled mightily against the two teams he faced with winning records turning the ball over by himself 5 times.