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Originally posted by Surfah
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I don't mind the hawk mascot, or losing the Drum and Feather logo. Losing the Utes name will sting. The rest of the stuff is just fluff anyway."The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."
"They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."
"I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."
-Rick Majerus -
Horrible newsComment
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The logo is nothing compared to losing the name. The drum and feather as Shoganai pointed out in his history lesson has been getting phased out for awhile now with the block U. Losing the name Utes would suck. The basketball jerseys just wouldn't look the same.Originally posted by The Notorious J.I.C. View Post"Nobody listens to Turtle."-TurtlesigpicComment
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Originally posted by The Notorious J.I.C. View PostI don't understand this. Utes is just a name, the school is the important thing. Also, if the Ute Tribe is not happy, it seems the decent thing to drop the name and move on. Hawks is actually fairly unique and not bad at all.Originally posted by Surfah View Post
If BYU suddenly became the Hawks or Chimps or Bulldogs (how cool would that be?) or whatever, I'd be more concerned about the new mascot than losing the "Cougars" name. I'd probably be a little sad, but I'm a fan of the school and its teams, not some mascot (that said, Cougars is pretty rad in my view). I was able to make it through the change from old Cosmo to new Cosmo, so I've got some experience in all of this.Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!
For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.
Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."
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I have not as of yet been contacted by the tribe...but if I am, I refuse to change my moniker."They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.Comment
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As it turns out I ended up spending a few hours at the New Year's Eve party thrown by Native Americans at the Indian Walk In Center on 1300 south and about 120 West in SLC. I thought of this thread while there as I saw more than a few men and women sporting drum and feather logos as part of their native costumes (there was a pow-wow going on so many persons were in their dance costumes). One of the chiefs had a large and beautiful drum and feather logo made from spectacular bead work. It didn't seem like anyone was offended by his choice.PLesa excuse the tpyos.Comment
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I agree. I still wonder, though, if the Ute tribe will really push the issue hard enough to force the loss of the national exposure they get. It's not a ton of publicity (except on occasion when the U. teams do something big), but better than nothing. Just looking at it as a business proposition.Originally posted by myboynoah View Post“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-ExuperyComment
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I wonder how much is to prevent the sort of nonsense that happens such as the BYU gal holding up the "go back to the reservation" sign?? Utah can control the way it portrays its mascot but can't control the way others convey it.Comment
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A very well connected poster on Utefans/Twitter posted that this may not be over yet...
Stay tuned.Comment
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What is the business proposition? Does the Ute Tribe have commercial ventures that benefit greatly from the UofUtah using its name?Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
It is apparent that the UofUtah is making a lot of money by using the name. From reading this thread, it appears the tribe has asked for what it considers to be its fair share via financial compensation and the UofUtah has responded with some scholarships and discounts on UofUtah merchandise (pretty insignificant). Maybe that's all the UofUtah could do in the past, but with that PAC12 windfall coming, it seems appropriate to pass more onto the Ute Tribe. You are using their name afterall.
Or else, bring on the HAWKS!!!!Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!
For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.
Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."Comment
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Ditch the drum. No eagle feathers (apparently, only Native Americans can use them). Different feathers.
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Utah makes a lot of money from selling apparel. It is unknown how much of that money is made because the apparel says "Utes" or has a circle and feather on it.Originally posted by myboynoah View PostComment
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You make a reasonable point. I've thought about that myself. I understand (without looking into it - I am not an intellectual property lawyer) that the Ute tribe can't stop the U. from using their name. I understand also that the U. pays them nothing now and is determined not to go down that path. If that's true, then it seems to me that the only leverage the tribe has is to create a p.r. problem for the U. I think the "nuclear option" the U. has in response to that tactic is to say, "Fine, we won't use your name if it is offensive to you," and switch to Hawks or some such name. That seems to me like a dumb result for the Utes to force, because it leaves them with nothing but their status as the former nickname for U. of Utah sports teams.Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
I don't know about you, but the first time I knew that there were Native American tribes called Illini or Seminoles was when I read about the tribes because of the Illinois and Florida State football teams. I am still asked from time to time what a Ute is, and I can see a light go on in the eyes of everyone I explain it to. Seems to me the Utes benefit from being the U's symbol. But maybe that's not the most important thing to them.
I thought this was interesting, from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_...tate_SeminolesThe University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, however, is permitted to use the name "Illini" owing to the NCAA ruling that the name "is closely related to the name of the state and not directly associated with Native Americans." The term Fighting Illini is in fact a reference to veterans from Illinois who fought during World War I. The symbol Chief Illiniwek was ruled "hostile and abusive" and was retired in 2007 to comply with the NCAA's ruling, and the following year, in compliance with a related NCAA ruling, both U of I and Northwestern University retired their then-current rivalry trophy, the Sweet Sioux Tomahawk.
Anyway, like JIC said, if we drop the Ute nickname that'll sting but it won't be the end of the world, just the end of an era.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-ExuperyComment
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Originally posted by Portland Ute View PostDitch the drum. No eagle feathers (apparently, only Native Americans can use them). Different feathers.
Looks like a headdress.Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!
For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.
Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."Comment
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If they drop the drum and feather and the Ute name go with the University of Utah Downhillers, just throw that skier from the license plate onto the helmet. It could say "greatest snow on earth" on that back tag and could really heat up the rivalry with CU.Comment
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