No more drum and feather?

[myboynoah]

You make a reasonable point. I've thought about that myself. I understand (without looking into it - I am not an intellectual property lawyer) that the Ute tribe can't stop the U. from using their name. I understand also that the U. pays them nothing now and is determined not to go down that path. If that's true, then it seems to me that the only leverage the tribe has is to create a p.r. problem for the U. I think the "nuclear option" the U. has in response to that tactic is to say, "Fine, we won't use your name if it is offensive to you," and switch to Hawks or some such name. That seems to me like a dumb result for the Utes to force, because it leaves them with nothing but their status as the former nickname for U. of Utah sports teams.

I don't know about you, but the first time I knew that there were Native American tribes called Illini or Seminoles was when I read about the tribes because of the Illinois and Florida State football teams. I am still asked from time to time what a Ute is, and I can see a light go on in the eyes of everyone I explain it to. Seems to me the Utes benefit from being the U's symbol. But maybe that's not the most important thing to them.

I thought this was interesting, from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_mascot_controversy#Florida_State_Seminoles

Anyway, like JIC said, if we drop the Ute nickname that'll sting but it won't be the end of the world, just the end of an era.

I agree that the UofUtah can help to raise the profile of the Ute Tribe, but wonder what that is worth. It sounds like the tribe wants to make it more tangible, which seems reasonable since it is their name. Why is the UofUtah unwilling to go down that path? That would provide a pretty good PR opportunity.

[shoganai]

Why is the UofUtah unwilling to go down that path? That would provide a pretty good PR opportunity.

They see it as a slippery slope. Opening that door won't make the problem with the tribe go away. It will just create a new cycle of regular negotations where the tribe may very well ask for a progressively larger cut anytime they feel like it.

I think the admin has great respect for the Ute tribe, and appreciates having their blessing in being Utah's mascot, but they don't want to be in a position where that's continually held over their heads in business dealings.

Also, the claim that the Ute tribe is due some kind of recompense is dubious since the UofU thinks it would probably sell about the same amount of apparel regardless of what the specific mascot and logo on it was.

[Surfah]

Looks like a headdress.

I thought headdresses were a Sioux thing.

[myboynoah]

I thought headdresses were a Sioux thing.

[myboynoah]

I thought headdresses were a Sioux thing.

[Surfah]

Isn't that Kyle's mom? She used to be a Cougar. Not that kind sickos.

[myboynoah]

Isn't that Kyle's mom? She used to be a Cougar. Not that kind sickos.

Bingo.

A question for everyone, especially UofUtah Fans:

Is it OK for white adults to dress up like Native Americans at sporting events or even for events like Halloween or costume parties? As of late, I'd thought it had come to be in very poor taste, if not outright offensive to Native Americans.

Didn't the UofUtah used to play up the "Ute" connection much more, with a guy dressed up as a "Ute" on a horse? I take it those displays were discontinued because they offended the Ute Tribe. Are headdresses and other regalia not as offensive?

[mtnbiker]

Ha ha, that would crack me up if they used that. From the front, it probably looks like a frilled lizard or a pioneer bonnet.

Now those are nicknames that surely aren't currently used by other college teams, right? Frilled Lizards or Pioneer Bonnets.

[TripletDaddy]

Bingo.

A question for everyone, especially UofUtah Fans:

Is it OK for white adults to dress up like Native Americans at sporting events or even for events like Halloween or costume parties? As of late, I'd thought it had come to be in very poor taste, if not outright offensive to Native Americans.

Didn't the UofUtah used to play up the "Ute" connection much more, with a guy dressed up as a "Ute" on a horse? I take it those displays were discontinued because they offended the Ute Tribe. Are headdresses and other regalia not as offensive?

Tickets to Utah sporting events used to have a little indian baby with a tomahawk printed on them. Very racist.

[LA Ute]

A question for everyone, especially UofUtah Fans:

Is it OK for white adults to dress up like Native Americans at sporting events or even for events like Halloween or costume parties? As of late, I'd thought it had come to be in very poor taste, if not outright offensive to Native Americans.

I don't think so. I wouldn't do it because I think the headdresses are sacred to the Utes. I doubt the photos you have are of officially sanctioned uses of the headdress.

Didn't the UofUtah used to play up the "Ute" connection much more, with a guy dressed up as a "Ute" on a horse? I take it those displays were discontinued because they offended the Ute Tribe. Are headdresses and other regalia not as offensive?

I think I heard that the guy on a horse either was a Ute or was doing the ceremony with the tribe's approval. It was discontinued at the tribe's request, IIRC. Florida State does something along the same lines, with the Seminole tribe's approval.

[shoganai]

Florida State does something along the same lines, with the Seminole tribe's approval.

In FSU's case, the mascot and the whole flaming spear routine are choreographed and approved by the Seminole tribe. In fact, I think the mascot (on scholarship, of course) is always an actual native Seminole.

[LA Ute]

In FSU's case, the mascot and the whole flaming spear routine are choreographed and approved by the Seminole tribe. In fact, I think the mascot (on scholarship, of course) is always an actual native Seminole.

According to something I saw over the weekend, it isn't always a Seminole but the "actor" is approved by the tribe and taught exactly how the ceremony is to be done. I wish the Utes and the U. could collaborate the way the Seminoles and FSU seem to.

http://www.fsu.edu/news/2005/06/17/seminole.support/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sp...t-COLLEGE.html

[Dwight Schr-ute]

Per Utah Athletics via Facebook:

The University of Utah Athletics
The University of Utah and its athletics department periodically review the use of the circle and feather logo out of sensitivity for native tribes across the country as well as Utah fans. At this time, the athletics department will continue to use both the circle and feather and the block U logos.

As for the old tradition of the Ute who used to ride his horse on to the field, I grew up in the same ward as the guy that used to do that. Great guy. Full blown Ute. Now that I'm older, I'd love to sit down with him and talk about that whole experience. Maybe I'll try and make contact with him.

[il Padrino Ute]

Utah to keep drum and feather.

[Scorcho]

Bingo.

A question for everyone, especially UofUtah Fans:

Is it OK for white adults to dress up like Native Americans at sporting events or even for events like Halloween or costume parties? As of late, I'd thought it had come to be in very poor taste, if not outright offensive to Native Americans.

Probably not a good idea to dress up in Native American Dress for any occassion, just as it's distatesful during Halloween for the couple who comes to a costume party dressed as a Priest and a Pregnant Nun (funny, but definitely could be offensive).

I recall going to a Halloween Costume party and seeing an LDS Guy (late 40's) who used some of his temple clothes for part of his costume. I was a little bit shocked. Probably 3/4th of the party didn't know what it was, but for those of us that were LDS, I kept thinking that is over the line. Don't know if anyone pulled him aside to say, you may want to rethink that?