Penn State pedophilia

[DU Ute]

I'm shocked! Utterly and completely shocked that the mormon church would do something like this.

There is a big difference between the Mormon Church doing something like this and some members of the Mormon Church doing something like this. If I couldn't tell the difference I probably would have gone apostate by now too.

[Green Monstah]

I'm shocked! Utterly and completely shocked that the mormon church would do something like this.

It sad, and unforgiveable, no matter the institution. Sadly, I've been involved in two instances where I had to pit myself against Church leaders for how they were handling some improper quasi-sexual contact between adults and children at church. They were crippled with fear and couldn't see the consequences of covering up the issue. I was threatened with a Church court the last time, but luckily a good buddy of mine was on the HC and talked some sense into the leaders in question.

Although your schtick is old, you're right that LDS Church leaders often turn into serious pussies when it comes to taking child abuse seriously. Just look at the freaking Fulton Brock fiasco in Phoenix right now. The victim's parents (active LDS) finally got sick of waiting for Bishop/Stake Prez to call the cops and did it themselves.

I'm willing to give JoePa the benefit of the doubt and believe that he wasn't told by McQueery that Scumdusky was anally raping the boy, but I think McQueery is villain #2 in all of this. If he coaches for PSU again, I will lose all respect for that program (and I have quite a bit of respect for how they purportedly run things).

[Green Monstah]

Oh, come on, that was a cheap shot. God knows how many Catholic priests did the same thing and yet one of the singular instances of the LDS Church involved in this horrific circumstance warrants this kind of attention. I'm all for accountability, but there were THOUSANDS of children harmed by the blind eye the Catholics turned towards this issue. How many as it relates to the LDS CHurch? Dozens, maybe? Not that their pain is any less relevant, but the attention directed is unwarranted.

Sadly, there have been hundreds of instances, IMO, where the LDS Church didn't do the right thing...even some very recent instances. I think Jesus was serious when he said that there's a special punishment for those who offend the little ones. I should probably stop commenting about this b/c some of my very closest friends were victimized by LDS people, and they still battle serious depression and suicide issues because of it. It's a pretty emotional issue for me.

[lambdacoug]

Oh, come on, that was a cheap shot. God knows how many Catholic priests did the same thing and yet one of the singular instances of the LDS Church involved in this horrific circumstance warrants this kind of attention. I'm all for accountability, but there were THOUSANDS of children harmed by the blind eye the Catholics turned towards this issue. How many as it relates to the LDS CHurch? Dozens, maybe? Not that their pain is any less relevant, but the attention directed is unwarranted.

I'm not sure why you think I would not also hold the Catholic church to the same level of contempt. More actually, since the number of abuses by the Catholic church is larger because it has a far larger population to perpetrate the abuse. Any church, or group of people that acted in a self preserving manner such as this should be treated the same. I happened to be commenting on someone else bringing up just the mormon church, so my comment was similarly focused.

And "singular instances"? Rose colored glasses, anyone?

[Omaha 680]

And "singular instances"? Rose colored glasses, anyone?

LOL. Yeah, Viking. I'm sick of you and your rose-colored view of the Church.

[splitbamboo]

It sad, and unforgiveable, no matter the institution. Sadly, I've been involved in two instances where I had to pit myself against Church leaders for how they were handling some improper quasi-sexual contact between adults and children at church. They were crippled with fear and couldn't see the consequences of covering up the issue. I was threatened with a Church court the last time, but luckily a good buddy of mine was on the HC and talked some sense into the leaders in question.

Although your schtick is old, you're right that LDS Church leaders often turn into serious pussies when it comes to taking child abuse seriously. Just look at the freaking Fulton Brock fiasco in Phoenix right now. The victim's parents (active LDS) finally got sick of waiting for Bishop/Stake Prez to call the cops and did it themselves.

I'm willing to give JoePa the benefit of the doubt and believe that he wasn't told by McQueery that Scumdusky was anally raping the boy, but I think McQueery is villain #2 in all of this. If he coaches for PSU again, I will lose all respect for that program (and I have quite a bit of respect for how they purportedly run things).

I don't know this situation, but I have to wonder why a parent would wait a single second for a Church leader to act. It's their children.

[lambdacoug]

There is a big difference between the Mormon Church doing something like this and some members of the Mormon Church doing something like this. If I couldn't tell the difference I probably would have gone apostate by now too.

Well, you just try to remove the members of the mormon church and still have a mormon church left to do these things. And yes, yes, I am constantly reminded that the church is perfect, but its members aren't. Anyway, there is abuse of authority where ever there is authority, the mormon church is not exempt from this, nor is PSU or the US Gov't or banks or the Catholic church, etc... Each of those institutions are made up of people, and people can do horrible things. When any such organization uses its influence to protect the guilty rather than the victim, in any way, it is appalling. Just like this whole sordid affair has marred the image of PSU and its athletics, so to do similar instances mar the image of other organizations such as mormonism, and it makes no difference that it was just one person perpetrating the crime along with a few who enable the activity by action or inaction. Anyway...

[Green Monstah]

I don't know this situation, but I have do wonder why a parent would wait a single second for a Church leader to act. It's their children.

In this situation, the families were at one time very good friends, which may have made it a harder phoen call, and it appears that the acts were confessed by the perp during sessions with the parents, the perp and LDS leadership. I can only assume that the parents were told/assumed that it was the leaders' obligation to do so, but that is a very good point.

[lambdacoug]

I don't know this situation, but I have to wonder why a parent would wait a single second for a Church leader to act. It's their children.

The same should be extrapolated to JoePa and the GA and anyone that knew of these things. Why would they wait a single second for someone else to act? Its a child.

[Scorcho]

Sadly, there have been hundreds of instances, IMO, where the LDS Church didn't do the right thing...even some very recent instances.

sadly, you are correct.

That is why you've seen such a big push over the last 5 years by the LDS Church that church callings dealing with kids and scouts are to be closely scrutinized and monitored.

Even simple things like placing glass windows on church classroom doors are efforts to make things better.

I believe some of the issues (not all) with the LDS leadership were simply being naive and a matter of not knowing the law. I think the LDS Church has done a good job at rectifying the situation, it's just too bad they didn't have the foresight to get ahead of the problem.

[Paperback Writer]

I don't buy that completely. It seems like all the moves by the admin from the very beginning of all of this have been done so to protect the interests and reputation of Penn St. Sending Joe-Pa out at the end of the season is part of that effort. They still care far more about Penn St. than they do the kids, Joe-Pa, or anyone else.

Agree. It's also worth pointing out that PSU is undefeated in Big Ten play and on the path to the Rose Bowl. However, they have some tough games ahead in Nebraska, @Ohio St., and @Wisconsin. The PSU brand will take a hit either way. Win out and go to the Rose Bowl and the story stays in the headlines. Lose out and PSU cannot overcome adversity - still in the headlines. I think PSU will lose all three games. Not because PSU cannot overcome adversity, but because all the remaining teams on their schedule are better than PSU.

I don't have a problem with JoePa retiring at the end of the season. Paterno has culpability in this tragedy but it's not clear yet the extent of his (non) involvement. Allow the Coach some measure of dignity to end his distinguished career. Forcing him out now will do nothing for the victims.

[lambdacoug]

sadly, you are correct.

That is why you've seen such a big push over the last 5 years by the LDS Church that church callings dealing with kids and scouts are to be closely scrutinized and monitored.

Even simple things like placing glass windows on church classroom doors are efforts to make things better.

I believe some of the issues (not all) with the LDS leadership were simply being naive and a matter of not knowing the law. I think the LDS Church has done a good job at rectifying the situation, it's just too bad they didn't have the foresight to get ahead of the problem.

Well another part of the problem is the amount of focus on sex and pornography and masturbation and stuff by religion in general. Throw in untrained (or poorly trained), lay leadership and the potential for issues is high. That is not a specific condemnation of mormonism, but rather religion in general. If I were in the church still, I would insist on being present during interviews of my children to ensure nothing innappropriate is discussed (and yes, men asking boys/teens about masturbation in a 1:1 situation is wildly innappropriate, not to mention girls though that is far less common in priesthood interviews). I know of active members that do this, and I'd encourage everyone to do so. Not because every leader is a creep, but because you rarely know who is a creep until its too late.

[TripletDaddy]

sadly, you are correct.

That is why you've seen such a big push over the last 5 years by the LDS Church that church callings dealing with kids and scouts are to be closely scrutinized and monitored.

Even simple things like placing glass windows on church classroom doors are efforts to make things better.

I believe some of the issues (not all) with the LDS leadership were simply being naive and a matter of not knowing the law. I think the LDS Church has done a good job at rectifying the situation, it's just too bad they didn't have the foresight to get ahead of the problem.

It is kind of odd to wish that the Church had foresight. Isn't the concept of seeng ahead part and parcel to the LDS church?

[Green Monstah]

sadly, you are correct.

That is why you've seen such a big push over the last 5 years by the LDS Church that church callings dealing with kids and scouts are to be closely scrutinized and monitored.

Even simple things like placing glass windows on church classroom doors are efforts to make things better.

I believe some of the issues (not all) with the LDS leadership were simply being naive and a matter of not knowing the law. I think the LDS Church has done a good job at rectifying the situation, it's just too bad they didn't have the foresight to get ahead of the problem.

Agree. I do find it infuriating, however, that often the first impulse is to be concerned with how this makes the LDS Church look. In that regard, it appears the initiative and training haven't been effective. Who gives a shit about reputation? Someone is abusing a child!

[TripletDaddy]

I'm willing to give JoePa the benefit of the doubt and believe that he wasn't told by McQueery that Scumdusky was anally raping the boy, but I think McQueery is villain #2 in all of this. If he coaches for PSU again, I will lose all respect for that program (and I have quite a bit of respect for how they purportedly run things).

joePa's story doesn't pass much muster, which is probably why he was thrown overboard so quickly.

He claimed that he was told of "inappropriate behavior" ("horsing around") in the shower between Sandusky and a small boy. He also admitted that the GA was visibly upset when he told JoePa. Finally, JoePa claims that he was not given details like the ones provided in the grand jury report.

So, per JoePa, here is how it went down on that fateful night:

GA: Coach, I need to tell you something.
coach: what's up?
GA: I saw Coach Sandusky behaving inappropriately with a young boy in the showers.
Coach: you seem visibly shaken and upset. I will relay your message to the AD.
GA: ok, thanks, bye.
Coach: bye.

It is entirely unbelievable. In that instance, the natural response is to say, "what do you mean, inappropriately? What were they doing? Why is a little kid here? Why were they taking shower together?"

In other words, everyone would have asked follow up questions to one degree or another.

JoePas own testimony condemns him. He isn't credible. Nor is he a good liar.