The Official Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl Thread

**Hsaru** · 12-31-2011, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by myboynoah View Post

It sounds like people's dour expectations are based more on Heaps choosing to leave than other factors. Heaps sucked it up. Riley gave BYU the best chance to win. Playing Riley over Heaps was a no-brainer.

Heaps' decision to leave is his. The team asked him to red-shirt and he opted to go elsewhere. It is finished.

Was not a no-brainer, USC worked through Matt Barkley's extensive growing pains as a sophomore and struggled to an 8-5 season even though they have top 5 type talent and they were very richly rewarded this season.

**Jeff Lebowski** · 12-31-2011, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Viking View Post

Man, the Glazier family owns EVERYTHING!

lol.

Oops. Force of habit.

**Hsaru** · 12-31-2011, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by woot View Post

Against those teams, nothing is suicide short of literal suicide.

I sure wish you'd find something else to post about.

Those type of teams are the only thing that allowed Riley to keep his job, if he was playing TCU's and Tulsas and Utah's and Texas' he likely would have lost the job back to Heaps, instead he got to feast on the SJSU's and Idaho St's to prove his starting-worthiness.

**Viking** · 12-31-2011, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Hsaru View Post

Those type of teams are the only thing that allowed Riley to keep his job, if he was playing TCU's and Tulsas and Utah's and Texas' he likely would have lost the job back to Heaps, instead he got to feast on the SJSU's and Idaho St's to prove his starting-worthiness.

Oh, please. No more. Does Kansas have the internet? Do they have a board? You could start one, if not.

**ERCougar** · 12-31-2011, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Tone Loc View Post

Out of curiosity, what would BYU's record be if heaps was the starter all year?

That will help me understand why you are so certain in your opinion.

I really want to drop this subject, but you keep dangling these in front of us.

Our record is 9-4, possibly 8-5, and I wouldn't even put 7-6 out of the realm of possibility. No top 25 ranking, and yes, that matters. Our team going into next year demoralized and split up over a QB controversy.

BUT...it doesn't matter. It's over.

**jay santos** · 12-31-2011, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Tone Loc View Post

Out of curiosity, what would BYU's record be if heaps was the starter all year?

That will help me understand why you are so certain in your opinion.

I don't agree with this theory that anyone could have beat the teams Nelson did.

I think we lose another 2-5 games with Heaps than we did with Nelson, and possibly miss out on going to a bowl.

**woot** · 12-31-2011, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Hsaru View Post

Was not a no-brainer, USC worked through Matt Barkley's extensive growing pains as a sophomore and struggled to an 8-5 season even though they have top 5 type talent and they were very richly rewarded this season.

Sigh. Heaps is your religion. I don't suppose it would do any good to recognize that Barkley was waaaaaay better during his "extensive growing pains" than Heaps ever was, and was playing against far superior competition?

Didn't think so.

**Coach McGuirk** · 12-31-2011, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by jay santos View Post

I don't agree with this theory that anyone could have beat the teams Nelson did.

I think we lose another 2-5 games with Heaps than we did with Nelson, and possibly miss out on going to a bowl.

Can you stop talking about heaps? He is long gone!

**MarkGrace** · 12-31-2011, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Tone Loc View Post

Out of curiosity, what would BYU's record be if heaps was the starter all year?

That will help me understand why you are so certain in your opinion.

One loss worse if you don't pull Heaps. The exact same if you pull Heaps, let Riley finish Utah St., and then give Riley one more start to let Heaps sort out his issues before plugging him back in.

That's the exact point I'm making, and it's what differentiates from what Jay is arguing (a Locker or Beck scenario where you're racking up losses): with the way the schedule was set up and based on what we saw from each QB, you could have played for the upside without considerably changing your downside. That's exactly why it makes so little sense to me.

I'm glad we have coaches that are trying to win as many games as possible as well, and that's why I think this was the wrong move. At best you won maybe two games more this year (and likely one with the possibility of zero), but you're going to cost yourself more in the long-run (which at this point is a virtual guarantee with the way '13 is setting up). To me that's just short-sighted.

**jay santos** · 12-31-2011, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Coach McGuirk View Post

Can you stop talking about heaps? He is long gone!

Agree. Sorry. I really do wish him the best and don't blame him for transferring.

I get sucked into these arguments.

**lambdacoug** · 12-31-2011, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Hsaru View Post

Those type of teams are the only thing that allowed Riley to keep his job, if he was playing TCU's and Tulsas and Utah's and Texas' he likely would have lost the job back to Heaps, instead he got to feast on the SJSU's and Idaho St's to prove his starting-worthiness.

I don't know...Heaps looked horrid against ISU. KU can have him. Suckers.

**Shaka** · 12-31-2011, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by jay santos View Post

Agree. Sorry. I really do wish him the best and don't blame him for transferring.

I get sucked into these arguments.

Please note that I suck but am not getting sucked. I've learned!

**jay santos** · 12-31-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by MarkGrace View Post

One loss worse if you don't pull Heaps. The exact same if you pull Heaps, let Riley finish Utah St., and then give Riley one more start to let Heaps sort out his issues before plugging him back in.

That's the exact point I'm making, and it's what differentiates from what Jay is arguing (a Locker or Beck scenario where you're racking up losses): with the way the schedule was set up and based on what we saw from each QB, you could have played for the upside without considerably changing your downside. That's exactly why it makes so little sense to me.

I'm glad we have coaches that are trying to win as many games as possible as well, and that's why I think this was the wrong move. At best you won maybe two games more this year (and likely one with the possibility of zero), but you're going to cost yourself more in the long-run (which at this point is a virtual guarantee with the way '13 is setting up). To me that's just short-sighted.

I agree it would be short-sighted to bench a guy with far superior potential (assumption 1) for zero incremental wins (assumption 2). I doubt the coaches shared your assumptions.

**Viking** · 12-31-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by atheistcougar View Post

I don't know...Heaps looked horrid against ISU. KU can have him. Suckers.

After seeing Riley will the entire team into a couple of victories and an ok effort in a losing performance against TCU, the game I'd like to have back is Utah.

With the kind of fire that Riley brings, it would have been a much more interesting game. I don't know who'd win, honestly, with Riley given that the entire team seems to respond quite differently to him than Heaps, but I know who'd lose a rematch vs. Utah with Heaps at the helm again.

**Viking** · 12-31-2011, 05:35 PM

I don't think Steve Young would have been a starter under a team led by the Heaps crew here. Robbie Bosco had much better throwing mechanics and passing ability than Young did, even as a freshman. Lavell should have sacrificed the 1982 and 1983 seasons so Bosco could play

The Official Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl Thread

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