The Official Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl Thread

[Pheidippides]

After ruminating on this for a day or so, I think San Juan has it exactly right: this season was fraudulent. We were sold a bill of goods. The Heaps thing is little more than the vomit frosting on the shit cake.

Was independence the right call? At the time I thought so, and I still think it was. We'll never know what happened in the B12 deal, so I'm not going to rehash that either. We're in a horrible situation that may not be of our own making. We're irrelevant.

Yeah, I was able to (and did) see every game this year. The trouble was that most of them were games I didn't really want to see. Yeah, we won our bowl game, but that was it - there's nothing else to play for. What do we have to look forward to next season? The marginal value of every win over 6 is so greatly reduced that it's hard to get excited. The only things to root for is a NC and/or a BCS game, and I am not envisioning that happen any time soon.

I'm interested to see how Heaps does in another system (and, if he's a complete bust at KU, how we look back at this) but I don't care to dwell on him. I'm more worried about Riley. IMO, Riley's problem isn't his physical tools. Sure, he is lacking in arm strength, but I can name a score of good to great college QBs that didn't have arm strength or had funky throwing motions or whatever. In college, I'm convinced that you have to (1) make the easy throws most of the time and (2) not make boneheaded mistakes. And the second is the more important element - and it's where Riley struggles the most. Bad throws. Doesn't throw the ball away. Doesn't take a sack when he should. These things result in bad plays, bad losses. Those need to get fixed if we hope to win a few games next season. I'll live with the bad arm if we can get the bad head fixed.

[Katy Lied]

(2) not make boneheaded mistakes.

Don't you think this can be coached out of Riley? Or is his mentality so set in stone that you just gotta use the Riley that you've been dealt?

[Pheidippides]

Don't you think this can be coached out of Riley? Or is his mentality so set in stone that you just gotta use the Riley that you've been dealt?

I don't know. I hope so. But who is going to do the coaching?

[ERCougar]

After ruminating on this for a day or so, I think San Juan has it exactly right: this season was fraudulent. We were sold a bill of goods. The Heaps thing is little more than the vomit frosting on the shit cake.

Was independence the right call? At the time I thought so, and I still think it was. We'll never know what happened in the B12 deal, so I'm not going to rehash that either. We're in a horrible situation that may not be of our own making. We're irrelevant.

Yeah, I was able to (and did) see every game this year. The trouble was that most of them were games I didn't really want to see. Yeah, we won our bowl game, but that was it - there's nothing else to play for. What do we have to look forward to next season? The marginal value of every win over 6 is so greatly reduced that it's hard to get excited. The only things to root for is a NC and/or a BCS game, and I am not envisioning that happen any time soon.

So playing for 3rd place in the MWC against UNM and UNLV would have been super exciting?

It really is about the fact that playing Idaho State isn't very fun.

As soon I see good evidence that the choice was between independence and the Big 12, then I'll jump on board with the pissed off. In the meantime, I'll go ahead and follow the common sense that says that when Utah left the MWC, we were left with two options, neither of which were optimal, and we chose the better one and actually made a landing spot for ourselves. Does anyone really want to go back to the MWC (football) right now?

As for the marginal value of wins past 6--there's a huge difference between winning 10 games and 6 games (or even 9). At 9-4, we don't make the top 25 and we're not ranked in the preseason next year. It then turns into a battle of going 4-0 or 5-0 before anyone's talking about you. A big reason we won the NC in 1984 was not that we were undefeated that year, but that we were 11-1 and ended 7th (or something) the year before--against a bunch of patsies.

It's not the B12 and P12, but it's our new world until either one of those are an option. Until then, wins are everything. Our way to stay relevant and be set up for that rare magic year is to stay consistently good, go to a bowl game, and end in the top 25.

[TripletDaddy]

Do you think we will be ranked in the top 25 to start the season next year?

I don't anticipate that happening.

[ERCougar]

Do you think we will be ranked in the top 25 to start the season next year?

I don't anticipate that happening.

Thinking process of poll voters:
1) What were they ranked last year?
2) How many starters do they return?

By that metric, we're pretty good.

[TripletDaddy]

Thinking process of poll voters:
1) What were they ranked last year?
2) How many starters do they return?

By that metric, we're pretty good.

What are we ranked this year?

[ERCougar]

What are we ranked this year?

We were 26th before the bowl game in the coaches poll, 29th AP. I bet we break both at year end.

[Viking]

You do realize there's nothing inconsistent about these statements?

[Shaka]

After ruminating on this for a day or so, I think San Juan has it exactly right: this season was fraudulent. We were sold a bill of goods. The Heaps thing is little more than the vomit frosting on the shit cake.

Was independence the right call? At the time I thought so, and I still think it was. We'll never know what happened in the B12 deal, so I'm not going to rehash that either. We're in a horrible situation that may not be of our own making. We're irrelevant.

Yeah, I was able to (and did) see every game this year. The trouble was that most of them were games I didn't really want to see. Yeah, we won our bowl game, but that was it - there's nothing else to play for. What do we have to look forward to next season? The marginal value of every win over 6 is so greatly reduced that it's hard to get excited. The only things to root for is a NC and/or a BCS game, and I am not envisioning that happen any time soon.

I'm interested to see how Heaps does in another system (and, if he's a complete bust at KU, how we look back at this) but I don't care to dwell on him. I'm more worried about Riley. IMO, Riley's problem isn't his physical tools. Sure, he is lacking in arm strength, but I can name a score of good to great college QBs that didn't have arm strength or had funky throwing motions or whatever. In college, I'm convinced that you have to (1) make the easy throws most of the time and (2) not make boneheaded mistakes. And the second is the more important element - and it's where Riley struggles the most. Bad throws. Doesn't throw the ball away. Doesn't take a sack when he should. These things result in bad plays, bad losses. Those need to get fixed if we hope to win a few games next season. I'll live with the bad arm if we can get the bad head fixed.

You make some great points. Riley had started to clean some things up until yesterday. Other than TCU Tulsa was the stiffest competition he had faced. Their scheme was solid. Not only did the have on of the middles spy they had great push from the edge. This cut off the QB draw and any scrambles to the outside. It's up to Doman to figure out how to deal with this and then for Riley to execute that plan. There are ways to beat that type of defense (I'm looking at you screen pass) that do not require a QB with a cannon. One of the things that killed me about Nelson yesterday was the overthrows. I can understand throwing something short when pressure comes but Nelson isn't supposed to overthrow anyone!

I have the same reservations about being indy. This season wasn't a lot of fun. November was excruciating. Next season's schedule is a little more interesting but I'm still worried about November.

[TripletDaddy]

We were 26th before the bowl game in the coaches poll, 29th AP. I bet we break both at year end.

I hope you are right.

I'm not entirely convinced that preseason rankings are boiled down to the two main questions you listed. I'm guessing BYU will not be ranked to start next season. Maybe get some votes, though. If anything, our current ranking or lack thereof despite having 9 wins is indicative of what the voters really think of the quality of this team and the quality of those 9 wins.

[Pheidippides]

So playing for 3rd place in the MWC against UNM and UNLV would have been super exciting?

It really is about the fact that playing Idaho State isn't very fun.

As soon I see good evidence that the choice was between independence and the Big 12, then I'll jump on board with the pissed off. In the meantime, I'll go ahead and follow the common sense that says that when Utah left the MWC, we were left with two options, neither of which were optimal, and we chose the better one and actually made a landing spot for ourselves. Does anyone really want to go back to the MWC (football) right now?

As for the marginal value of wins past 6--there's a huge difference between winning 10 games and 6 games (or even 9). At 9-4, we don't make the top 25 and we're not ranked in the preseason next year. It then turns into a battle of going 4-0 or 5-0 before anyone's talking about you. A big reason we won the NC in 1984 was not that we were undefeated that year, but that we were 11-1 and ended 7th (or something) the year before--against a bunch of patsies.

It's not the B12 and P12, but it's our new world until either one of those are an option. Until then, wins are everything. Our way to stay relevant and be set up for that rare magic year is to stay consistently good, go to a bowl game, and end in the top 25.

I don't disagree that we made the right call initially. And I don't know that it was a call between independence and the B12. I can't say one way or the other. All I'm willing to say is that we were in talks. That I will believe.

But it doesn't matter. Independence sucks. And the fact that it sucks less than the current iteration of the MWC (arguable this year; without a doubt next) is irrelevant. We just had a 10 win season and will probably finish in the top 25 - a season result all but the elite teams would be happy with - and I'm having a hard time caring.

[ERCougar]

I have the same reservations about being indy. This season wasn't a lot of fun. November was excruciating. Next season's schedule is a little more interesting but I'm still worried about November.

I'm with you on this--November was painful. I'm not sure I sat through a single entire game in the month. However, I'm convinced this is as much due to timing of the Utah game as independence. We've had some painful snoozers in November, but we still had a game we cared about on the horizon. I'm guessing that if TCU and BSU had faced each other in October, their fans would have slept through November too.

I disagree with a lot of people around here in that I think Tulsa was a decent team, I can't think of any games that we lost that we should have won, and I'm therefore pretty happy with a 10-win season and a top 25 ranking.

[Shaka]

I'm with you on this--November was painful. I'm not sure I sat through a single entire game in the month. However, I'm convinced this is as much due to timing of the Utah game as independence. We've had some painful snoozers in November, but we still had a game we cared about on the horizon. I'm guessing that if TCU and BSU had faced each other in October, their fans would have slept through November too.

I disagree with a lot of people around here in that I think Tulsa was a decent team, I can't think of any games that we lost that we should have won, and I'm therefore pretty happy with a 10-win season and a top 25 ranking.

Tulsa wasn't a bad team at all. They were certainly a cut above much of our schedule.

[Surfah]

Tulsa wasn't a bad team at all. They were certainly a cut above much of our schedule.

That's not saying much though since our SOS was one of the worst in the country. Tulsa wasn't a bad team. They also finished 3rd in Conference USA.

San Juan Sun expressed my feelings best without any of the emotion I've attached to this season (though with his use of terms like fraudulent and cognitive dissonance it felt like a Foyer post).