The Official Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl Thread

[Coach McGuirk]

Sporting BYU coat today and getting lots of "Congrats" from strangers on the great win yesterday.

FYI: No comments of QB sucking, instead they say that guy was ice under pressure...

It appears everyone is past the QB issue except you.

[woot]

I'm just being a dick. It's kinda what I do.

But in all seriousness, why should I not expect greatness. What in you says "okay, the stats say we can't or shouldn't be able to so I am fine with that"? Maybe we are just wired differently.

Having reasonable expectations does not mean that I'm happy. One of the things I'm least happy about is how content with mediocrity the admins seem to be. BYU can't move up in the world unless it's willing to make some sacrifices. All we have to go on are rumors, but if it's true that 3rd-tier tv rights played a role, that's incredibly short-sighted. Frankly, I don't believe it.

And yeah, I'm very disappointed by the offense. The defense the next two years could be among the best BYU's ever had. If the offense could even be above-average I think we could make some noise. As it is, I don't know. Riley isn't exactly a ball-control QB, and the OL probably won't get any better next year. And if Adam Hine isn't the answer, the RBs are very lackluster as well.

I really hope Doman takes a big step forward his second year. I really hope he doesn't actually implement a running spread, as it will make the offense even worse next year. On the other hand, it might help his play calling if he had something like a base offense to run. I fear he'll just implement elements of it but keep everything else too.

[TripletDaddy]

Sporting BYU coat today and getting lots of "Congrats" from strangers on the great win yesterday.

FYI: No comments of QB sucking, instead they say that guy was ice under pressure...

Ice under pressure gets crushed.

[MarkGrace]

And if Adam Hine isn't the answer, the RBs are very lackluster as well.

I think our running game stands to improve next year. Obviously Alisa was a big find this season, and with as little experience as he has at the position and this being his first season back from a mission, I think there's a lot of room for growth there.

Also think Juice was really hampered by both physical and emotionally issues this year, and I think he bounces back a bit next year. My only worry with him is the temptation to transfer with all that's gone on with his family. Hine has got some raves on the scout team, and while it's hard to ever know what that means, I think he contributes as a 3rd option.

But my biggest optimism comes from Pritchard. Bronco is selling him as the next Tonga, and having that type as a lead blocker and short yardage guy will be big for our running game, I think.

[smokymountainrain]

I think our running game stands to improve next year. Obviously Alisa was a big find this season, and with as little experience as he has at the position and this being his first season back from a mission, I think there's a lot of room for growth there.

Also think Juice was really hampered by both physical and emotionally issues this year, and I think he bounces back a bit next year. My only worry with him is the temptation to transfer with all that's gone on with his family. Hine has got some raves on the scout team, and while it's hard to ever know what that means, I think he contributes as a 3rd option.

But my biggest optimism comes from Pritchard. Bronco is selling him as the next Tonga, and having that type as a lead blocker and short yardage guy will be big for our running game, I think.

I think Alisa is good and I while neither he nor Q is as explosive as I think most of us would like them to be, I think they are adequate and not the problem. I just don't think BYU's O-line can run block worth a damn. You could run Trent Richardson behind that line and he would struggle to perform against good defenses.

[MarkGrace]

But the disconnect I have with the McGuirk's, Surfah's and Junkie's of the world is that I don't see Heaps being able to accomplish what no other QB in the history of BYU football could do with the exception of Bosco. Hence the reason I've decided to come to grips with the fact that BYU coaches had to play Nelson because he was the best QB this year. Yes, they could have played Heaps, but in the long run, at best, he would be the same as every other QB at BYU and lose one or two token games. So why not go with the best guy this year who will do the same (meaning win 10-11 games and lose one or two) while he's the starter?

But there's an exact opposite way to see it, which to me makes as much, and probably even more, sense to me. And it's what has already been discussed. Riley doesn't have the ability to make this team great. I think every person on both sides of this debate agrees with that -- he's just too limited physically, and despite the end of game heroics yesterday, his performance underscored that in a major way. Heaps, and maybe this just exists in my own delusional mind, at least has the potential to do it (and I'm not talking about winning a NC as you defined it -- I simply mean putting us in what would be considered BCS territory and elevating our collection of talent, like Sark did). But to the extent that it does exists, it's because it's what the coaches have sold me. They have told me that he's a phenom; that he has the potential to be the best ever in this program; and that he has NFL ability. If that's what you're going to sell me, I want to see it have the opportunity to materialize, and I don't think we were given that opportunity.

And where the expectation has already been set as you said (chances are we're not going to run the table and the QB will take his token loss or two), then if that's all Jake achieves, then so be it. But why would you not play for the chance at something greater when you know the outcome between playing the two in the short-run is not going to be significantly different (and I think over two years we've learned that it's not; they've both done the exact same thing -- beat up on dummies and suck against any reasonable level of competition)? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

What also doesn't make sense to me is the point at which we pulled the plug. We were 2-2, which is exactly where everyone expected us to be after 4 games. Sure Heaps struggled a bit, but his struggles were entirely consistent we things you know were going on in the program and you yourself had set up through a coordinator change, and you also knew he was having serious off-the-field problems. You had set up your entire entire program on the kid and years of continuity at the position, and you dump the whole thing when you're at the point everyone expected you to be at and with knowledge of the attendant circumstances? I just don't know. Of course you were going down in the Utah St. game and I understand the switch there. Hell, maybe even bench the kid for the next game or two to get his head straight. But in my mind you still just have to go back to him as some point if you want a real shot at achieving anything.

In my mind Beck was the only QB I've watched since being back from my mission ('01) that had the potential to take us to great. In fact, I think he got there, it was just a little too late. Even a guy like Hall I think was too limited to make us great. To me Heaps represented that chance, and I believe there was a legit chance to get there with him. He struggled, no doubt, but it was just so early in his career and development for me not to be disappointed we pulled the plug. Look at the jump Riley made from last year to this year -- and this is his 4th year in college football and 3rd in our program. To me I have an expectation at a QB's junior year (and Riley's not meeting it at his Jr. year), and even Doman said he feels like it takes a kid a full two years to figure out what he's doing. We didn't even get to that point with Heaps. It's disappointing that it's all over, but it's most disappointing that it's all over before it even had a chance to get started.

[ERCougar]

I think Alisa is good and I while neither he nor Q is as explosive as I think most of us would like them to be, I think they are adequate and not the problem. I just don't think BYU's O-line can run block worth a damn. You could run Trent Richardson behind that line and he would struggle to perform against good defenses.

Yup...this is where I think we have a legitimate gripe. There is no excuse for us not to have a dominating O-line every year. We have the recruiting base, we have a 2-yr mission advantage. Every year, we hear how dominating our O-line will be, and even on years when we send linemen to the NFL (seems like every year), we're average at best.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ice under pressure gets crushed.

Actually, ice under pressure gets harder and more pure. I learned that on a glazier cruise.

[Viking]

Actually, ice under pressure gets harder and more pure. I learned that on a glazier cruise.

Man, the Glazier family owns EVERYTHING!

[jay santos]

But there's an exact opposite way to see it, which to me makes as much, and probably even more, sense to me. And it's what has already been discussed. Riley doesn't have the ability to make this team great. I think every person on both sides of this debate agrees with that -- he's just too limited physically, and despite the end of game heroics yesterday, his performance underscored that in a major way. Heaps, and maybe this just exists in my own delusional mind, at least has the potential to do it (and I'm not talking about winning a NC as you defined it -- I simply mean putting us in what would be considered BCS territory and elevating our collection of talent, like Sark did). But to the extent that it does exists, it's because it's what the coaches have sold me. They have told me that he's a phenom; that he has the potential to be the best ever in this program; and that he has NFL ability. If that's what you're going to sell me, I want to see it have the opportunity to materialize, and I don't think we were given that opportunity.

And where the expectation has already been set as you said (chances are we're not going to run the table and the QB will take his token loss or two), then if that's all Jake achieves, then so be it. But why would you not play for the chance at something greater when you know the outcome between playing the two in the short-run is not going to be significantly different (and I think over two years we've learned that it's not; they've both done the exact same thing -- beat up on dummies and suck against any reasonable level of competition)? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

What also doesn't make sense to me is the point at which we pulled the plug. We were 2-2, which is exactly where everyone expected us to be after 4 games. Sure Heaps struggled a bit, but his struggles were entirely consistent we things you know were going on in the program and you yourself had set up through a coordinator change, and you also knew he was having serious off-the-field problems. You had set up your entire entire program on the kid and years of continuity at the position, and you dump the whole thing when you're at the point everyone expected you to be at and with knowledge of the attendant circumstances? I just don't know. Of course you were going down in the Utah St. game and I understand the switch there. Hell, maybe even bench the kid for the next game or two to get his head straight. But in my mind you still just have to go back to him as some point if you want a real shot at achieving anything.

In my mind Beck was the only QB I've watched since being back from my mission ('01) that had the potential to take us to great. In fact, I think he got there, it was just a little too late. Even a guy like Hall I think was too limited to make us great. To me Heaps represented that chance, and I believe there was a legit chance to get there with him. He struggled, no doubt, but it was just so early in his career and development for me not to be disappointed we pulled the plug. Look at the jump Riley made from last year to this year -- and this is his 4th year in college football and 3rd in our program. To me I have an expectation at a QB's junior year (and Riley's not meeting it at his Jr. year), and even Doman said he feels like it takes a kid a full two years to figure out what he's doing. We didn't even get to that point with Heaps. It's disappointing that it's all over, but it's most disappointing that it's all over before it even had a chance to get started.

Jake Locker and John Beck were two guys with that kind of potential, and you could argue that both reached the potential, but they combined to go something like 30-60 in their careers. I'm glad we have a coach that understands the importance of winning now vs racking up the losses in hopes of reaching potential that may or may not ever be realized.

It's too bad Heaps transferred, but if your choice is to start him four years or let him transfer, Bronco and Doman made the right choice.

[jay santos]

What also doesn't make sense to me is the point at which we pulled the plug. We were 2-2, which is exactly where everyone expected us to be after 4 games.

We were 2-3 without Nelson's USU heroics. And we were pretty much in last place in offense and QB play. That's a half season worth. It was the exact right time to cut our losses. And the result was a moderately successful season.

[Hsaru]

Jake Locker and John Beck were two guys with that kind of potential, and you could argue that both reached the potential, but they combined to go something like 30-60 in their careers. I'm glad we have a coach that understands the importance of winning now vs racking up the losses in hopes of reaching potential that may or may not ever be realized.

It's too bad Heaps transferred, but if your choice is to start him four years or let him transfer, Bronco and Doman made the right choice.

I think Heaps showed against Idaho/NMSU that starting him isn't suicide, far from it.

[myboynoah]

It sounds like people's dour expectations are based more on Heaps choosing to leave than other factors. Heaps sucked it up. Riley gave BYU the best chance to win. Playing Riley over Heaps was a no-brainer.

Heaps' decision to leave is his. The team asked him to red-shirt and he opted to go elsewhere. It is finished.

[woot]

I think Heaps showed against Idaho/NMSU that starting him isn't suicide, far from it.

Against those teams, nothing is suicide short of literal suicide.

I sure wish you'd find something else to post about.

[Tone Loc]

Jake Locker and John Beck were two guys with that kind of potential, and you could argue that both reached the potential, but they combined to go something like 30-60 in their careers. I'm glad we have a coach that understands the importance of winning now vs racking up the losses in hopes of reaching potential that may or may not ever be realized.

It's too bad Heaps transferred, but if your choice is to start him four years or let him transfer, Bronco and Doman made the right choice.

Out of curiosity, what would BYU's record be if heaps was the starter all year?

That will help me understand why you are so certain in your opinion.