Deadspin takes on the Honor Code

[LiveCoug]

Is it true that BYU has only had a Chaplain for 5 years? I coulda sworn I remember hearing about the team chaplain during the Lavell years..

[MarkGrace]

Is it true that BYU has only had a Chaplain for 5 years? I coulda sworn I remember hearing about the team chaplain during the Lavell years..

They've only had a chaplain available to black players for the last 5 years.

[smokymountainrain]

They've only had a chaplain available to black players for the last 5 years.

That is very interesting. So they are racist!

[UtahDan]

Actually, 80% of players dismissed are white. Now, prove me wrong.

Look, I realize that it is a major, major stretch to think that the church or BYU has a problem with race or with its imagine regarding race. I just think it is fascinating to note that people seem to think there are issues there in the total absence of any evidence to support that view. I think the answer is probably found in the fact that there are a lot of people out there grinding axes against BYU having no legitimate cause to do so.

So I'm with you, I view those numbers with a lots of skepticism. I think BYU and the church have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to race. I think the truth is probably much closer to your number.

[CardiacCoug]

This is what Deadspin does. They post rumors and hearsay and anonymous letters that may or may not have some truth to them. Somebody on Cougarboard asked if Deadspin is respected by academics. LOL!

And anybody with even average intelligence will realize that the article doesn't prove anything about racism at BYU, especially when there are a bunch of things like DUIs, drug use, theft, rape charges, etc. Those types of things would get you in trouble at a lot of schools.

I don't think a story like this will affect recruiting or really influence anything else at BYU and will be forgotten quickly.

[smokymountainrain]

Look, I realize that it is a major, major stretch to think that the church or BYU has a problem with race or with its imagine regarding race. I just think it is fascinating to note that people seem to think there are issues there in the total absence of any evidence to support that view. I think the answer is probably found in the fact that there are a lot of people out there grinding axes against BYU having no legitimate cause to do so.

So I'm with you, I view those numbers with a lots of skepticism. I think BYU and the church have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to race. I think the truth is probably much closer to your number.

I've made my opinions about the honor code very clear on this board. FTR, if you're a wise CUF reader and you ignore most of my posts, I will explain: I am NOT a fan.

BYU's honor code office might very well be racist. In fact, based on the little I know about the honor code office, the people there and the way they've handled issues in the past, I'd venture to guess there is some racism involved. But to put any trust in the numbers they've pulled out of their asses in that article seems silly to me.

[UtahDan]

I've made my opinions about the honor code very clear on this board. FTR, if you're a wise CUF reader and you ignore most of my posts, I will explain: I am NOT a fan.

BYU's honor code office might very well be racist. In fact, based on the little I know about the honor code office, the people there and the way they've handled issues in the past, I'd venture to guess there is some racism involved. But to put any trust in the numbers they've pulled out of their asses in that article seems silly to me.

But you are not attributing having done that to me, right? I've said from go that I have no idea if those numbers are correct. But on the other hand, this guy got them from somewhere. I doubt he made it all up, though I would like him to "show his work." Though there are certainly some quacks in the academy, he is risking his reputation to put those numbers out there if he can't support them. So all the efforts to dismiss them right out of hand are equally premature IMO. Anyway, for BYU I think this is a problem of perception regardless of what percentage of it has its basis in reality.

[jay santos]

Bummer, I missed the discussion on this. I read the first little bit. I've made this same point about 100 times over the last ten years. I'm convinced the Honor Code application is racially biased.

[SCcoug]

Anyway, for BYU I think this is a problem of perception regardless of what percentage of it has its basis in reality.

There is a perception problem for both the church and BYU regarding race.

[TexTechCoug]

Bummer, I missed the discussion on this. I read the first little bit. I've made this same point about 100 times over the last ten years. I'm convinced the Honor Code application is racially biased.

Exactly my thoughts. I mean look at all the white players who were part of rape investigations who got off without even a suspension.

[jay santos]

Exactly my thoughts. I mean look at all the white players who were part of rape investigations who got off without even a suspension.

Black non-LDS football players are 200 times more likely to be kicked out of school than a white LDS non-athlete. Is it realistic to think a black non-LDS football player is 200 times more likely to break the Honor Code than a white LDS non-athlete?

[smokymountainrain]

But you are not attributing having done that to me, right? I've said from go that I have no idea if those numbers are correct. But on the other hand, this guy got them from somewhere. I doubt he made it all up, though I would like him to "show his work." Though there are certainly some quacks in the academy, he is risking his reputation to put those numbers out there if he can't support them. So all the efforts to dismiss them right out of hand are equally premature IMO. Anyway, for BYU I think this is a problem of perception regardless of what percentage of it has its basis in reality.

I was implying you had done that. Having gone back and re-read your posts and reading your comments in this post, I can see that I was wrong.

The part in bold...I'm not sure I agree 100%, but it's a fair point, to be sure. Also, I agree with your last sentence. And that last sentence is the reason any idiot can write an article like this and be taken seriously by a lot of people. It's just not that hard to believe.

[YOhio]

Black non-LDS football players are 200 times more likely to be kicked out of school than a white LDS non-athlete. Is it realistic to think a black non-LDS football player is 200 times more likely to break the Honor Code than a white LDS non-athlete?

After reading that article, how much more do you hate your church?

[CardiacCoug]

Black non-LDS football players are 200 times more likely to be kicked out of school than a white LDS non-athlete. Is it realistic to think a black non-LDS football player is 200 times more likely to break the Honor Code than a white LDS non-athlete?

No, I'm sure the discrepancy in honor code violations wouldn't be that great.

But it's obviously not just breaking the Honor Code but HOW you break the Honor Code. Anything that involves law enforcement is going to be treated more seriously (since it's about the BYU/Church image).

Besides legal entanglements, use of drugs/alcohol in front of a lot of people and participating in casual group sex are things that I think very few BYU students would participate in, but things that definitely get the attention and discipline of the Honor Code police. Is it racist to think that in some African American communities these activities are fairly common, and probably several orders of magnitude more common than in LDS communities?

[TexTechCoug]

Black non-LDS football players are 200 times more likely to be kicked out of school than a white LDS non-athlete. Is it realistic to think a black non-LDS football player is 200 times more likely to break the Honor Code than a white LDS non-athlete?

Two interesting points. First, how much more sexually active is the average college age black athlete than your average white Mormon BYU student. I think that you have to consider that many of the sexually active white LDS BYU students are generally part of a monogamous relationship that is getting more serious.

College athletes on the other hand are known for living the Tiger Wood's lifestyle.

One of these two types of sexual activities is more likely to get you busted, i.e. sleeping with your fiance/girlfriend is less risky in HC terms than having CJ Ah You videotape you and your 6 best friends having at it with a member of the track team.

Second, the white LDS BYU student is likely more savvy in terms of keeping their activities under the radar since this is their culture and they have kept things on the down low from parents and church leaders in the past.

I don't believe the HC targets athletes, in fact athletes were often protected and shielded more than non-athletes when I was at the Y.