The Utah 2011 Football Thread

[cougjunkie]

You can manipulate these opponents many different ways to point out who is better.

Of the games you pointed out in non-conference opponents for these teams, Oregon St. has a bad loss and Colorado has a bad loss against Hawaii.

What you didn't do was point out the out of conference records of the WAC, which after looking at a couple of teams is horrible. It looks like the best win was Louisiana Tech's, who is the top dawg in the conference right now, win over Ole Miss. There are so many ways you can spin this thing. And I will stand by my statement that comparing the records of BYU's last four opponents to Utah's is apples to oranges.

You can stand by that but based on the Sagarin rankings below (which seem to be a hot topic today) you would be wrong. You are kind of starting to sound like a BCS homer. Just because a team is in a BCS conference they are automatically better than non-bcs teams.

[Portland Ute]

Whoops and that throws the Ute fans defense right out the window.

Why is the middle tier of the MWC even part of this conversation?

[Flattop]

First of all the last 4 games is based on the last 4 games of the season for each team. The reason I "cherry picked" that stat is because that has been the hot topic in the local media over the past month about how BYU has played nothing but patsies and Utah has been playing Pac-12 schools.

BYUs last 4 games of the season are:

TCU
Idaho
New Mexico State
Hawaii

Utahs last 4 games of the season are:

UCLA
Arizona
Washington State
Colorado

You can say that I am trolling all you want but none of those stats were cherry picked this just seems to be a big topic right now in the local media when in reality both teams have played shitty schedules with BYUs actually being the less shitty of the two.

So go ahead and cherry pick some random computer ratings system, it does not change the fact that TCU is clearly the best out of all of these teams, and Colorado lost to one of BYUs remaining opponents. To use HLs logic Washignton state is worse than Utah State as well. So clearly BYU has the tougher schedule. A win over Wash. State in overtime is nice but that is a team that lost to Oregon State who lost to Sac. State and BYU at home. So not sure I would get to excited about that.

Hm, playing a Pac-12 schedule vs playing a Wac schedule? And I'm not even talking about Utah or BYU.

[Flattop]

The Pac 12 (minus the 3 good teams) = middle tier of the MWC.

Average sagarin ranking of Pac 12 teams ASU, UA, OSU, CAL, UCLA, CU, Utah, UW, WSU= 60.2

Middle tier of MWC = 67

Perfume on a turd. But its a great conference to be in since most of the teams are very average. You might be able to catch OSU, UCLA, CU, AU, and WSU in a row somehow and string together some wins.

If true, the middle tier of the MWC is probably better than the middle tier of the WAC.

[cougjunkie]

Why is the middle tier of the MWC even part of this conversation?

True it shouldn't be because clearly Utahs last few wins have come against something worse than middle tier MWC teams at least according to my friend Sagarin.

[il Padrino Ute]

The Pac 12 (minus the 3 good teams) = middle tier of the MWC.

Average sagarin ranking of Pac 12 teams ASU, UA, OSU, CAL, UCLA, CU, Utah, UW, WSU= 60.2

Middle tier of MWC = 67

Perfume on a turd. But its a great conference to be in since most of the teams are very average. You might be able to catch OSU, UCLA, CU, AU, and WSU in a row somehow and string together some wins.

And yet, if Utah wins out (meaning against Colorado and things work for Utah to play in the PAC12 championship game) it will be playing in the Rose Bowl. If BYU wins out, which bowl will it play in?

[Portland Ute]

True it shouldn't be because clearly Utahs last few wins have come against something worse than middle tier MWC teams at least according to my friend Sagarin.

Again, why is the MWC part of the discussion? Who is playing MWC teams?

Utah's not. BYU is not.

So why the MWC?

[TripletDaddy]

I actually think he needs to take a break and have Surfah do work for him more often. Surfah's efforts on Saturday are much better than junkie's current efforts. I mean really, arguing that BYU's SOS is better than Utah's? I expect better from junkie. Good trolling at least needs some small amount of truth to it.

Utah SOS: 67
BYU SOS: 87

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/current_congrove_rankings.html

Utah SOS: 33
BYU SOS: 71

http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team

Or

Utah SOS: 76
BYU SOS: 113

http://www.gberatings.com/sos/

Yes, Utah is in the weaker part of their schedule, but four weeks ago there was some concern on whether Utah would win more than one or two games in the Pac-12 this year.

Correct, Surfah is very skilled at finding soft spots and poking them with a sharp instrument. cj's approach is more along the lines of using a sledgehammer.

No argument, the schedule lightened up. Utah is still doing it without a D1 quarterback.

I agree, we certainly have not beaten anyone of consequence this year.

Alright, let's look at just the last 4 games like you want to cherry pick.

Should we use Sagarin ratings or do you propose another computer rating system.

Washington St: 67.41
UCLA: 73.37
Arizona: 69.88
Oregon St: 66.16
Average: 69.21

New Mexico St: 58.45
Idaho: 56.50
TCU: 83.66
Idaho St: 36.68
Average: 58.74

Ranking the teams by Sagarin
TCU
UCLA
Arizona
Washington St
Oregon St
New Mexico St
Idaho
Idaho St

BYU played the toughest team, but every single team that Utah has played is better than the other 3 teams that BYU played.

Sometimes you need to just point out the obvious

You can manipulate these opponents many different ways to point out who is better.

Of the games you pointed out in non-conference opponents for these teams, Oregon St. has a bad loss and Colorado has a bad loss against Hawaii.

What you didn't do was point out the out of conference records of the WAC, which after looking at a couple of teams is horrible. It looks like the best win was Louisiana Tech's, who is the top dawg in the conference right now, win over Ole Miss. There are so many ways you can spin this thing. And I will stand by my statement that comparing the records of BYU's last four opponents to Utah's is apples to oranges.

Why is the middle tier of the MWC even part of this conversation?

Hm, playing a Pac-12 schedule vs playing a Wac schedule? And I'm not even talking about Utah or BYU.

If true, the middle tier of the MWC is probably better than the middle tier of the WAC.

[cougjunkie]

Again, why is the MWC part of the discussion? Who is playing MWC teams?

Utah's not. BYU is not.

So why the MWC?

Actually BYU has. And you are correct Utah is not playing teams that are of MWC caliber.

[Surfah]

Utah SOS: 67
BYU SOS: 87

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/current_congrove_rankings.html

Utah SOS: 33
BYU SOS: 71

http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team

Or

Utah SOS: 76
BYU SOS: 113

http://www.gberatings.com/sos/

Yes, Utah is in the weaker part of their schedule, but four weeks ago there was some concern on whether Utah would win more than one or two games in the Pac-12 this year.

I wonder how these guys calculate SOS to arrive at such different numbers. Just today I saw a Yahoo article that said Stanford is 79th while Boise State is 14th. I thought it must have been a typo. But aside from Oregon and USC Stanford has played crap.

[cougjunkie]

And yet, if Utah wins out (meaning against Colorado and things work for Utah to play in the PAC12 championship game) it will be playing in the Rose Bowl. If BYU wins out, which bowl will it play in?

BYU will be playing in the Armed forces bowl against either an undefeated team or a 9/10 win team. Pretty good consolation prize.

[il Padrino Ute]

I'm taking the high road in all of this and wishing my Ute friends good luck this weekend with the Rumble in the Rockies.

We all know you don't mean that.

[Flattop]

I wonder how these guys calculate SOS to arrive at such different numbers. Just today I saw a Yahoo article that said Stanford is 79th while Boise State is 14th. I thought it must have been a typo. But aside from Oregon and USC Stanford has played crap.

Outside of Georgia and TCU, so has Boise St.

[cougjunkie]

I wonder how these guys calculate SOS to arrive at such different numbers. Just today I saw a Yahoo article that said Stanford is 79th while Boise State is 14th. I thought it must have been a typo. But aside from Oregon and USC Stanford has played crap.

Exactly why would you throw out 3 different computer models to make your argument when all 3 are so vastly different. It takes away all credibility.

On top of that the same guys (mid-major Ute fans) that bashed on the BCS and their confusing formula have now become 100% reliant on random computer models to help them with their arguments.

I knew eventually they would all sell-out but I didn't think it would happen this quickly.

[il Padrino Ute]

BYU will be playing in the Armed forces bowl against either an undefeated team or a 9/10 win team. Pretty good consolation prize.

Not bad for a middle of the road bowl game.