The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[jay santos]

I think if you're hoping for legalities to save us from super conferences you're putting your hope in a false promise. If the 4x16 happens, it's going to be done just as Texas A&M's exit from the Big 12 is currently being orchestrated - slowly, deliberately, and bureacratically, with plenty of suits and briefcases behind the scenes making sure there isn't a lot of ammo left over.

The first few steps towards this have already been taken. The next big step is getting the NCAA to allow increases in the value of scholarships, and who really doubts that's going to happen at some point now?

I'm not saying 4x16 is a forgone conclusion, but you can't ignore all the people talking about it, and they're talking about it for a reason.

If you want to avoid 4x16, you better root very hard for the Big 12 to stick together and become strong and stable again. As long as that happens, there will be at least 5-6 power conferences, and BYU will most definitely have a seat at the table.

The more you and Ted Nugent talk about this 4 x 16 thing, the more I think you guys are nuts.

There are so many moving parts and so many different entities with different motives, it's just not how the world works to expect them all to come together in 4 x 16 just because somebody somewhere thinks it would make for a clean national championship.

[BemidjiCoug]

Conferences will expand some may dissolve, but BYU, no matter how much Utah fans would like, will never be irrelevant.

I have been reading posts in this thread the last couple of weeks and one thing has become very clear to me. Utah fans are by no means objective in their arguments about the 64 team 4 super conference BS. Their only goal is to attempt to make a case that the BYU football program will be overlooked and will in effect cease to exist.

The fact that the PAC 12 chose them in their conference expansion somehow makes them feel like they would automatically be included in this 64 team league and that programs that have been part of the establishment for a century (Baylor, Vanderbilt, Iowa State, Kansas State, etc.) would be excluded. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.

I know its fun to make statements in an attempt to rile up BYU fans, but seriously, your Utah.

[Paperback Writer]

So that's why Nebraska was so content to stay with the conference?

I doubt Nebraska winning another national title in the Big Ten will be any easier then if the Huskers had stayed in the Big 12. If the Big Ten had courted Nebraska in 1999 instead of Notre Dame, I think Nebraska makes the same decision. Nebraska's recent struggles, Colorado's imminent departure, along with the LHN and disputes with Texas just made it a no-brainer when the Big 10 opened their door again.

[statman]

The big money incentive is via the championship game, which from what I've heard pushes the new deal past what they could've earned renegotiating as a 10-team league.

More than a decade ago, I was living in Big XII country when the Big XII Championship game started. The Big XII fans both loved it and hated it. It meant that your favorite team had to play a final neutral-site game to get to the big BCS game. And sometimes the 'better' team lost. that's the bad part of the game. The good part was, of course, the reported $20 million that the game brought in.

The $20 million figure was repeated often by the DFW sports media - and when you break it down it seems about right. Gate for the game was reported to be in the $4-$5 million range. Plus advertising/sponsorship $$$. Plus TV rights to a game in an exclusive time-slot on a Saturday evening which a very large chunk of college sports fans are going to watch. Only the big BCS bowls get better TV ratings than the Conference Championship games (ACC game excluded - no one cares!). In effect, each one of those Conference Championship games is like another BCS bowl game churning revenue for the Conference. THAT is why they want leagues of 12+ teams.

[Blueintheface]

Conferences will expand some may dissolve, but BYU, no matter how much Utah fans would like, will never be irrelevant.

I have been reading posts in this thread the last couple of weeks and one thing has become very clear to me. Utah fans are by no means objective in their arguments about the 64 team 4 super conference BS. Their only goal is to attempt to make a case that the BYU football program will be overlooked and will in effect cease to exist.

The fact that the PAC 12 chose them in their conference expansion somehow makes them feel like they would automatically be included in this 64 team league and that programs that have been part of the establishment for a century (Baylor, Vanderbilt, Iowa State, Kansas State, etc.) would be excluded. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.

I know its fun to make statements in an attempt to rile up BYU fans, but seriously, your Utah.

Beat you to it, LA! Ha!

[Mormon Red Death]

There's no indication that Colorado was a liability.

You are wrong. Most of the athletic departments in the big 12 took to the streets and screamed hallelujah that they didnt have Colorado in their conference anymore.

[shoganai]

The more you and Ted Nugent talk about this 4 x 16 thing, the more I think you guys are nuts.

There are so many moving parts and so many different entities with different motives, it's just not how the world works to expect them all to come together in 4 x 16 just because somebody somewhere thinks it would make for a clean national championship.

A clean national championship has nothing to do with it (or not much).

It's about creating a new field of financial competition where the schools capable of making big money maximize their brands together.

The dirty little secret is, many of the Louisiana Techs of the world actually want this as much as the big dogs do. There is little or nothing to be gained anymore for teams like Idaho to compete at the same technical level as Florida.

Call me crazy if you wish, but google "16-team super conferences" and start reading how many other people are talking about this around the country. Maybe we're all smoking the same weed, but you have to admit there's at least a little substance to it.

[Omaha 680]

I doubt Nebraska winning another national title in the Big Ten will be any easier then if the Huskers had stayed in the Big 12. If the Big Ten had courted Nebraska in 1999 instead of Notre Dame, I think Nebraska makes the same decision. Nebraska's recent struggles, Colorado's imminent departure, along with the LHN and disputes with Texas just made it a no-brainer when the Big 10 opened their door again.

But I will still miss the Big 8. Seeing all those series end is a shame.


Is BYU in the Big 12 yet?

[BemidjiCoug]

A clean national championship has nothing to do with it (or not much).

It's about creating a new field of financial competition where the schools capable of making big money maximize their brands together.

The dirty little secret is, many of the Louisiana Techs of the world actually want this as much as the big dogs do. There is little or nothing to be gained anymore for teams like Idaho to compete at the same technical level as Florida.

If this is the case than 64 is the wrong number. Their are many more teams than 64 that bring some big money to the table.

[jay santos]

A clean national championship has nothing to do with it (or not much).

It's about creating a new field of financial competition where the schools capable of making big money maximize their brands together.

The dirty little secret is, many of the Louisiana Techs of the world actually want this as much as the big dogs do. There is little or nothing to be gained anymore for teams like Idaho to compete at the same technical level as Florida.

Then what's to stop it from being a 4 x 14, 4 x 18, 18-16-14-20, 4 x 20?

Further: why can't five (or 3 or 6 or 7) conferences figure out how to do a national championship?

The 4 x 16 is arbitrary and frankly ridiculous.

[jay santos]

Maybe we're all smoking the same weed, but you have to admit there's at least a little substance to it.

Weed. No substance. Zero.

Fans can talk about it all they want. It's not how the world works.

[Moliere]

The more you and Ted Nugent talk about this 4 x 16 thing, the more I think you guys are nuts.

There are so many moving parts and so many different entities with different motives, it's just not how the world works to expect them all to come together in 4 x 16 just because somebody somewhere thinks it would make for a clean national championship.

I said this a dozen pages ago and no one listened. There will likely be 5 super conferences of anywhere from 12 members (PAC) to 16.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

You are wrong. Most of the athletic departments in the big 12 took to the streets and screamed hallelujah that they didnt have Colorado in their conference anymore.

One thing's for sure, no one from the Pac 10 schools seemed to give a shit when Utah and Colorado came in. The reaction was one of three things:

1. Nonexistent;

2. "Why the hell did we do that?"; and

3. "I guess we needed the two warmest bodies the Bay Area schools found acceptable."

The population of the states holding the Pac 10 schools equaled about 54.1 million, or 5.4 million people per team. After Utah and Colorado were added the collective population went to about 61.8 million, or 5.1 per team. And one of those teams is only the second biggest college attraction in its state and the reach of its alumni base is sparse outside the state of Utah.

But again, the Pac 10 wanted its championship game and Utah and Colorado were its only acceptable options.

[BemidjiCoug]

Then what's to stop it from being a 4 x 14, 4 x 18, 18-16-14-20, 4 x 20?

Further: why can't five (or 3 or 6 or 7) conferences figure out how to do a national championship?

The 4 x 16 is arbitrary and frankly ridiculous.

[woot]

Unless some extremely drastic change in philosophy is on the horizon, the Pac16 would take BYU before the B10 would.

BYU's best shot is for the Big12 to stay together, no question. It's extremely unlikely they get into the any of the 3 strongest conferences, and the 4th super conference is likely to be some ACC/Big East mash-up that would be geographically problematic. Super conferences are just bad for BYU.