The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[lambdacoug]

I still want to know what a 3D is. Sounds like it violates the Honor Code!

Ever seen Total Recall?

[Pelado]

So - as this is the Big 12 expansion thread, I have some quick questions about the Big 12's situation as we know it to be. There's been too much back and forth for me to keep up.

First - aTm has said they are out and gone. This is their last year in the Big 12. But is the SEC sticking by their guns to not admit them unless all of the remaining Big 12 schools sign off on some non-litigation agreement? I mean, is aTm going to join BYU with independence next year? Or do they have a backup plan?

Second - Missouri has said they aren't sure what they are doing. Due to conference bylaws it is known that they will play in the Big 12 next season - because they didn't withdraw from the conference by Sept 1. But they may decide to withdraw before next Sept 1, leaving them available to play in another conference for the 2013 season.

Third - the 8 teams currently in the Big 12 that remain, all say that they are going to stick around and all say that they are going to grant TV rights to the conference as a means of assuring stability.

Speaking of TV rights - has anyone actually signed them yet? Or are they all waiting to see what Missouri does before they actually sign anything? Does the agreement stipulate that it is only binding if all teams schools sign it?

And then there is TCU. Who, while the rest of the teams all sit around arguing about what they are going to do and waiting for aTm to leave and waiting to see what Missouri does, is just happy to be invited to the party and is playing the role of little brother who got invited to the movies with big brother and his friends for the first time - and is in the corner bouncing up and down saying "this is so cool...I can't wait...when are we leaving?...what movie are we going to?..."

SEC has agreed to accept TAMU regardless of the waivers. No reports yet of the schools actually signing over rights to the conference, just that they've agreed to do so.

[lambdacoug]

And then there is TCU. Who, while the rest of the teams all sit around arguing about what they are going to do and waiting for aTm to leave and waiting to see what Missouri does, is just happy to be invited to the party and is playing the role of little brother who got invited to the movies with big brother and his friends for the first time - and is in the corner bouncing up and down saying "this is so cool...I can't wait...when are we leaving?...what movie are we going to?..."

At least they are in. I'd rather be TCU right now than BYU.

[Hot Lunch]

And then there is TCU. Who, while the rest of the teams all sit around arguing about what they are going to do and waiting for aTm to leave and waiting to see what Missouri does, is just happy to be invited to the party and is playing the role of little brother who got invited to the movies with big brother and his friends for the first time - and is in the corner bouncing up and down saying "this is so cool...I can't wait...when are we leaving?...what movie are we going to?..."

I am not sure BYU fans should be talking shit on TCU.

[jay santos]

And then there is TCU. Who, while the rest of the teams all sit around arguing about what they are going to do and waiting for aTm to leave and waiting to see what Missouri does, is just happy to be invited to the party and is playing the role of little brother who got invited to the movies with big brother and his friends for the first time - and is in the corner bouncing up and down saying "this is so cool...I can't wait...when are we leaving?...what movie are we going to?..."

Eddie. You're better than this. This is the most lame, tired smack I've ever read. BYU making fun of Utah and TCU because they just tripled our revenues, yet they only get phased in over a five year period. I'm completely lost patience for this take.

[Jacob]

As for the demanding a minimum number of appearances, that's just silly. Texas doesn't even have that. They are on TV because they put a good product out there that people want to see. If BYU does the same they will be on TV, too. I don't understand this demand.

Actually, I think many TV contracts require that each team has a minimum number of appearances. Maybe that # is only 2 or 3 in the B12 and BYU wanted 6? I don't know. A minimum # is not silly. But I agree that this issue should not stop BYU from agreeing to join.

As for BYUtv, why not try to make a deal that if the conference will allow BYUtv to broadcast any home games not picked up by ABC/ESPN or Fox, BYU will then share all profit from those games equally with the entire conference? If exposure is all that matters, and not money, then this deal seems pretty good to me. And Texas Tech, for example, wouldn't mind getting a share of money from BYUtv broadcasting a BYU-TCU basketball game when they otherwise would have received nothing.

I don't understand why the networks wouldn't allow BYU to broadcast games that aren't otherwise broadcast. This seems like a very reasonable demand by BYU. From the networks' persepctive, I'm sure they want the flexibility to determine what games are being broadcast a week or 2 or 3 before so that they can air relevant matchups. OTOH, BYUTV can't prepare to produce and broadcast a games if they are not given advanced notice. So I see the conflict.
When we put the 2 issues together (minimum appearances and BYUTV broadcast rights) we can see what BYU's legitimate concern is. Do we want to be like Baylor, where our games are rarely available to our national fan base? Clearly not. If BYU is only getting a guarantee of 2 games broadcast, between ESPN and Fox and no right to broadcast the others on BYUtv, then I can't strongly disagree with the decision to reject the B12's offer. That's just not reasonable and is the type of exposure that should be unacceptable to all of us fans. But perhaps I'm painting too bleak a picture on the broadcast rights and guarantees. Anyone here know such details in the B12 agreements?

But is the SEC sticking by their guns to not admit them unless all of the remaining Big 12 schools sign off on some non-litigation agreement?

...

Speaking of TV rights - has anyone actually signed them yet? Or are they all waiting to see what Missouri does before they actually sign anything? Does the agreement stipulate that it is only binding if all teams schools sign it?

aTm is a done deal from all perspectives.
The signing of the B12 TV rights only becomes effective when all member institutions sign, and Mizzou hasn't signed yet.

[Paperback Writer]

So BYU was probably looking to secure at least as much exposure as they get now - at least four national games and everything else on BYUtv. I think this is likely the biggest sticking point - Fox didn't want to take over ESPN's current responsibility to broadcast those games. Or maybe BYU wanted all of their tier 1 and 2 games to remain on an ESPN platform. Either way, I think this is where ESPN/Fox would have had the biggest problems.

According to Jay's article, another negative in the negotiations was that BYUtv is in a lot more homes than Longhorn network, which seems counter-intuitive. The other Big 12 schools should like that it's widely available and free, so they don't have to subscribe to the channel to get the games (unlike for Longhorn network games).

If there's a game that ESPN/Fox wants, they can prevent BYUtv from showing it by picking it up for broadcast. The only negative from their perspective would be that BYUtv's wide availability could pull some viewers from their concurrent tier 1 and 2 broadcasts. That seems like a pretty minor concern. How many people are really going to watch Iowa State-BYU instead of Texas-Oklahoma?

I bolded the part that I think could is most relevant. In the Big 12, if a game is picked up by Tier 1 (ABC), much of the time it is split regionally. So non-SW/West viewers will have to watch the game on ESPN since ABC won't be showing it in the mid-west and east coast. I think the larger problem is FoxSports. Many of their channels are regional. So if the Big 12 BYU games goes to Tier 2 (FoxSports) only the Fox regional viewers will get the game (SW and West). If the game goes onto some other Fox channel there's a good chance that BYU viewers will not be subscribing to the provider's Sports package that includes all these Fox Channels. The same could hold on all of the additioinal ESPN channels. In my view, the typical LDS home will only have ABC and ESPN and maybe the local FoxSports channel.

In other words, the only way a BYU Big 12 game is nationally televised is if it is picked up by Tier 1 (ABC/ESPN) and that might not even be true depending on what subscription level a provider places the other ESPN channels. If the game goes to Tier 2 (FoxSports), the only way a midwest or east coast BYU fan will get the game is if he/she subscribes to a Sports package that includes all the Fox Sports channels. Is this really a national braodcast for midwest or East coast BYU fan?

So I can understand BYU's concern that what they have currently from ESPN may not be matched with the Big 12 and then trying to negotiate that. However, I fault BYU for not understanding that no Big 12 teams have had such guarantees. Winning programs get more exposure.

I think it's enitrely possible that BYU didn't like the risk of getting clobbered in the Big 12 and having almost all of their games on Fox which might not provide exposure to the average BYU fan or even the average football fan who's going to check what game is on ABC and/or ESPN and/or the local FoxSports channel (that might be all he subscirbes to). In other words, BYU may appear less on ESPN in the Big 12 - a lot less if they don't win.

[lambdacoug]

Actually, I think many TV contracts require that each team has a minimum number of appearances. Maybe that # is only 2 or 3 in the B12 and BYU wanted 6? I don't know. A minimum # is not silly. But I agree that this issue should not stop BYU from agreeing to join.



I don't understand why the networks wouldn't allow BYU to broadcast games that aren't otherwise broadcast. This seems like a very reasonable demand by BYU. From the networks' persepctive, I'm sure they want the flexibility to determine what games are being broadcast a week or 2 or 3 before so that they can air relevant matchups. OTOH, BYUTV can't prepare to produce and broadcast a games if they are not given advanced notice. So I see the conflict.
When we put the 2 issues together (minimum appearances and BYUTV broadcast rights) we can see what BYU's legitimate concern is. Do we want to be like Baylor, where our games are rarely available to our national fan base? Clearly not. If BYU is only getting a guarantee of 2 games broadcast, between ESPN and Fox and no right to broadcast the others on BYUtv, then I can't strongly disagree with the decision to reject the B12's offer. That's just not reasonable and is the type of exposure that should be unacceptable to all of us fans. But perhaps I'm painting too bleak a picture on the broadcast rights and guarantees. Anyone here know such details in the B12 agreements?



aTm is a done deal from all perspectives.
The signing of the B12 TV rights only becomes effective when all member institutions sign, and Mizzou hasn't signed yet.

The f*ing apologetics are so dishonest and distasteful. You know, there is nothing wrong with admitting you are upset. You don't have to tow the party line all the time. You are not required to find a silver lining. You can just say "This sucks!" and try to move on. Afterall, that would be independent, which is all the rage in Provo.

[Flystripper]

I don't understand why the networks wouldn't allow BYU to broadcast games that aren't otherwise broadcast. This seems like a very reasonable demand by BYU. From the networks' persepctive, I'm sure they want the flexibility to determine what games are being broadcast a week or 2 or 3 before so that they can air relevant matchups. OTOH, BYUTV can't prepare to produce and broadcast a games if they are not given advanced notice. So I see the conflict.
When we put the 2 issues together (minimum appearances and BYUTV broadcast rights) we can see what BYU's legitimate concern is. Do we want to be like Baylor, where our games are rarely available to our national fan base? Clearly not. If BYU is only getting a guarantee of 2 games broadcast, between ESPN and Fox and no right to broadcast the others on BYUtv, then I can't strongly disagree with the decision to reject the B12's offer. That's just not reasonable and is the type of exposure that should be unacceptable to all of us fans. But perhaps I'm painting too bleak a picture on the broadcast rights and guarantees. Anyone here know such details in the B12 agreements?

Once you get into conference play there are only 5 games every week (10 team league) or 6 (12 team league) All of those games are going to be picked by one of the ABC/ESPN Fox networks. So I guess the arguement is about the 4 out-of-conference games of which BYU and its television partner has the rights to 2 maybe 3 games? BYU seems very foolish to me.

[SeattleUte]

I still want to know what a 3D is. Sounds like it violates the Honor Code!

YES

[Coach McGuirk]

The f*ing apologetics are so dishonest and distasteful. You know, there is nothing wrong with admitting you are upset. You don't have to tow the party line all the time. You are not required to find a silver lining. You can just say "This sucks!" and try to move on. Afterall, that would be independent, which is all the rage in Provo.

The Answer to all your problems

[Flystripper]

I think it's enitrely possible that BYU didn't like the risk of getting clobbered in the Big 12 and having almost all of their games on Fox which might not provide exposure to the average BYU fan or even the average football fan who's going to check what game is on ABC and/or ESPN and/or the local FoxSports channel (that might be all he subscirbes to). In other words, BYU may appear less on ESPN in the Big 12 - a lot less if they don't win.

BYU would be on the ESPN's flagship network the same amount of time in the Big 12 as they currently are (rarely) and ABC even less frequently. BYU would have to believe that having a game on BYUtv is better than having it on ESPN2, ESPNU or Fox Regional. BYUtv would be better for member access but worse for exposure.

[Paperback Writer]

Once you get into conference play there are only 5 games every week (10 team league) or 6 (12 team league) All of those games are going to be picked by one of the ABC/ESPN Fox networks. So I guess the arguement us about the 4 out of conference games? BYU seems very foolish to me.

Does the average BYU fan or college football fan subscribe to all the ESPN and FoxSports channels? I'm not sure of the answer. Years ago I was with a provider where I only got ESPN and the local FoxSports channel. I got everything after I switched providers but only because I got a great deal (an employee discount) to get all that content. Prior to the swtich, the cost of subscribing to all the sports channels was to much for the spouse and got vetoed. So I think its a fair question to ask. If a BYU Big 12 game goes to Tier 2 on FoxSports - who will be able to watch it? I see a big problem for mid-west, south-east, and east coast football fans. This is not "national" exposure. ABC/ESPN is national exposure. But I could be off since I haven't followed how all these sports channels are being packaged since I got the "all channels" package at a big discount.

[Flystripper]

Does the average BYU fan or college football fan subscribe to all the ESPN and FoxSports channels? I'm not sure of the answer. Years ago I was with a provider where I only got ESPN and the local FoxSports channel. I got everything after I switched providers but only because I got a great deal (an employee discount) to get all that content. Prior to the swtich, the cost of subscribing to all the sports channels was to much for the spouse and got vetoed. So I think its a fair question to ask. If a BYU Big 12 game goes to Tier 2 on FoxSports - who will be able to watch it? I see a big problem for mid-west, south-east, and east coast football fans. This is not "national" exposure. ABC/ESPN is national exposure. But I could be off since I haven't followed how all these sports channels are being packaged since I got the "all channels" package at a big discount.

average football fan? The average football fan is not watching BYUtv.

[Tone Loc]

You know what, Seattleute is right. He could probably give some great advice to BYU.

Seattleute's wedding night= BYU's TV experience if they lose

Moral of the story, exposure is only good if you really have something to show. Just because you think you have something people want to see, doesnt mean it's so.

Seattleute, always looking out for BYU.