The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[TripletDaddy]

I think youre the only one who really believes that happened.

Just go with it. We also turned down the PAC 10. Independence makes no sense.

[byu71]

I think youre the only one who really believes that happened.

I do believe we played our cards wrong when it came to the BIG12. I don't know exactly what happened, but I don't believe it is just a matter of they didn't ask.

[All-American]

I don't mean that decision. I mean turning down the B12 last year.

What did BYU do that it shouldn't have done, or what didn't they do that they should have done, that resulted in the Big 12 leaving BYU out?

[Viking]

What did BYU do that it shouldn't have done, or what didn't they do that they should have done, that resulted in the Big 12 leaving BYU out?

BYU in the B12 was a matter of BYU pressing the issue and making it happen at perhaps the only time in BYU's history where it held some decent cards to get into a big time conference.

What BYU did or did not do is unknown to me. I hav soundbites from non-BYU parties, generally. I really dont know what the admin was thinking. We all know the outcome.

As critical as I am of the admin, they are now wise to let this next round play out as it clearly excludes them, or as long as the eastward focus continues.

This might sound trite, but a Romney win plus a couple of good football seasons could change perceptions quite a bit.

I love BYU football. I am a totally disbelieving, non-Christian guy who couldn't be further doctrinally from the LDS church but I love BYU football and always will.

It's painful to think it might be permanently impaired as a result of this process.

[TripletDaddy]

Va Tech talks turkey: "We're not going anywhere and neither is anyone else"

[All-American]

BYU in the B12 was a matter of BYU pressing the issue and making it happen at perhaps the only time in BYU's history where it held some decent cards to get into a big time conference.

What BYU did or did not do is unknown to me. I hav soundbites from non-BYU parties, generally. I really dont know what the admin was thinking. We all know the outcome.

As critical as I am of the admin, they are now wise to let this next round play out as it clearly excludes them, or as long as the eastward focus continues.

This might sound trite, but a Romney win plus a couple of good football seasons could change perceptions quite a bit.

I love BYU football. I am a totally disbelieving, non-Christian guy who couldn't be further doctrinally from the LDS church but I love BYU football and always will.

It's painful to think it might be permanently impaired as a result of this process.

Ok, so the correct answer is that you don't know what BYU did or didn't do to blow its chance to get into the Big 12. In fact, I bet you don't even know IF BYU administrators did something to blow BYU's chance to get into the Big 12. All you know, and all any of us know, is that there were talks, and they didn't result in BYU getting in.

How are you so sure that the reason it didn't go beyond initial how'dya'do's is simple geography?

[Viking]

Ok, so the correct answer is that you don't know what BYU did or didn't do to blow its chance to get into the Big 12. In fact, I bet you don't even know IF BYU administrators did something to blow BYU's chance to get into the Big 12. All you know, and all any of us know, is that there were talks, and they didn't result in BYU getting in.

How are you so sure that the reason it didn't go beyond initial how'dya'do's is simple geography?

No. I don't have BYU's story, nor would I be able to get it. I know what one side had to say about it.

I'm not going to repeat what was said about BYU but I was very vocal at the time that BYU was overplaying its hand.

We know that the B12 was pushing. We know that TCU, which anyone who is from Texas can attest is considered somewhere between UNT and BU amongst the football crowd, was accepted into the B12 in a geographically dilutive move, not BYU, which would be an important accretive transaction. We know Shoganai (and others) reported that Cecil was telling alumni not to hold their breath about the B12, not in a manner that would say "they don't want us" but from a "we don't want them" posture. I did not believe Shoganai because of what I had heard but it later emerged he was correct and it was at this point I heard the "BYU must not want this" type of stuff.

We consistently heard how happy BYU was with the ESPN deal. Even to the uninformed or to those who believe they are informed but really not, there are enough data points to make a high probability conclusion.

[ERCougar]

I'm still not convinced we ever had an offer, but even if we did, hindsight is 20/20. The B12 then was akin to the BEAST right now. Are you pushing hard to get into the BEAST?

[Viking]

I'm still not convinced we ever had an offer, but even if we did, hindsight is 20/20. The B12 then was akin to the BEAST right now. Are you pushing hard to get into the BEAST?

No it wasn't. Texas never...not once had serious intentions to go to the Pac12. The B12 needed the stability BYU could bring by getting the league back to a minimum number of teams (knowing Mizzou would leave).

If OU left with OSU, then you'd be left with a league that would replace those two with Louisville and TCU.

This is precisely why I'm so critical of the admin: they were part of the solution to the problem they perceived. Does anyone remember the UT folks coming here to welcome us? The other blogs where people were practically begging BYU to save the B12??

We deserve precisely what we have gotten: nothing and the risk of value destruction.

[ERCougar]

No it wasn't. Texas never...not once had serious intentions to go to the Pac12. The B12 needed the stability BYU could bring by getting the league back to a minimum number of teams (knowing Mizzou would leave).

If OU left with OSU, then you'd be left with a league that would replace those two with Louisville and TCU.

This is precisely why I'm so critical of the admin: they were part of the solution to the problem they perceived. Does anyone remember the UT folks coming here to welcome us? The other blogs where people were practically begging BYU to save the B12??

We deserve precisely what we have gotten: nothing and the risk of value destruction.

But we have no idea of the terms.
It was looking like a B12 consisting of Texas and her b****es, all of whom were looking to break at the first chance. Even Texas was looking at going on its own.
You can search my posts--I was even in favor of joining the B12 without Texas/OU/OSU, but not on ridiculous terms. And none of us know what those terms were.

[Viking]

But we have no idea of the terms.
It was looking like a B12 consisting of Texas and her b****es, all of whom were looking to break at the first chance. Even Texas was looking at going on its own.
You can search my posts--I was even in favor of joining the B12 without Texas/OU/OSU, but not on ridiculous terms. And none of us know what those terms were.

I would love to be UT's biatch. That would be something...

Face it Cougs, we are Utah's biatch now. They have outclassed us in every way.

[All-American]

No. I don't have BYU's story, nor would I be able to get it. I know what one side had to say about it.

I'm not going to repeat what was said about BYU but I was very vocal at the time that BYU was overplaying its hand.

We know that the B12 was pushing. We know that TCU, which anyone who is from Texas can attest is considered somewhere between UNT and BU amongst the football crowd, was accepted into the B12 in a geographically dilutive move, not BYU, which would be an important accretive transaction. We know Shoganai (and others) reported that Cecil was telling alumni not to hold their breath about the B12, not in a manner that would say "they don't want us" but from a "we don't want them" posture. I did not believe Shoganai because of what I had heard but it later emerged he was correct and it was at this point I heard the "BYU must not want this" type of stuff.

We consistently heard how happy BYU was with the ESPN deal. Even to the uninformed or to those who believe they are informed but really not, there are enough data points to make a high probability conclusion.

And yet, the Big 12 got over BYU so quickly. Why is it not the natural inference that they weren't that into us to begin with? What in the discussion of what to do over tier 3 rights reminded Beebe of the fact that Provo is so frigging far away from the rest of the conference, with nothing but desert and corn fields between BYU and the next closest Big 12 school?

[LiveCoug]

I have faith!!!!


:big12:

[TripletDaddy]

And yet, the Big 12 got over BYU so quickly. Why is it not the natural inference that they weren't that into us to begin with? What in the discussion of what to do over tier 3 rights reminded Beebe of the fact that Provo is so frigging far away from the rest of the conference, with nothing but desert and corn fields between BYU and the next closest Big 12 school?

They fly out to talk to us and when the end result is that a deal doesn't get done, the "natural inference" is that they weren't that into us? I think you mean, "one possible inference."

The geography argument is puzzling. They turned around and recruited west Virginia.

Also, you now seem to know that Tier 3 rights were an issue. How?

[ERCougar]

Does WVU really preclude BYU getting in? Why not form a West and East division? Or a north and south division, but with BYU in with more western schools? I know the CW says that now they're just looking east, but I don't see the geographical span as that big of a deal. Provo's as close as Miami.

EDIT: Point is--if B12 were ever really interested in BYU, they would still be now. And they may still be, who knows?