The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Jeff Lebowski]

Does WVU really preclude BYU getting in? Why not form a West and East division? Or a north and south division, but with BYU in with more western schools? I know the CW says that now they're just looking east, but I don't see the geographical span as that big of a deal. Provo's as close as Miami.

EDIT: Point is--if B12 were ever really interested in BYU, they would still be now. And they may still be, who knows?

The longer Viking talks, he more hope I have.

[LiveCoug]

Does WVU really preclude BYU getting in? Why not form a West and East division? Or a north and south division, but with BYU in with more western schools? I know the CW says that now they're just looking east, but I don't see the geographical span as that big of a deal. Provo's as close as Miami.

EDIT: Point is--if B12 were ever really interested in BYU, they would still be now. And they may still be, who knows?

And Provo is even closer than Morgantown

[Viking]

The longer Viking talks, he more hope I have.

I have hope. BYU still holds some decent cards.

But it needs to start being managed like a business and not like a utility.

[San Juan Sun]

So much angst over the Big12. Let me tell you, getting over that league snubbing BYU is liberating. Instead, I am looking forward to welcoming our new BigEast overlords.

In all seriousness, if the Big12 doesn't expand, and ND stays as they are while resigning with NBC, it will be very interesting this summer/fall to see what kind of deal the BigEast gets. And it will be very interesting to see if BYU jumps in. It seems to be forgotten here that we were very, very close to joining the BigEast (much closer than we were to joining the Big12).

[Viking]

So much angst over the Big12. Let me tell you, getting over that league snubbing BYU is liberating. Instead, I am looking forward to welcoming our new BigEast overlords.

In all seriousness, if the Big12 doesn't expand, and ND stays as they are while resigning with NBC, it will be very interesting this summer/fall to see what kind of deal the BigEast gets. And it will be very interesting to see if BYU jumps in. It seems to be forgotten here that we were very, very close to joining the BigEast (much closer than we were to joining the Big12).

What if the truth is that we had the chance and let it go? Seems to me that some persecution complex might be inadvertently entering into your evaluation of the situation

[San Juan Sun]

What if the truth is that we had the chance and let it go? Seems to me that some persecution complex might be inadvertently entering into your evaluation of the situation

Persecution complex? I don't have any personal feelings mixed up in this thread (unlike you).

As far as the Big12 goes, whatever happened really doesn't matter to me anymore. Were we in? Who turned down who? Was an offer on the table? None of it matters. This is 2012, and the landscape going forward is ever changing. Worrying about he say/she said from last fall doesn't get us out of the independence lifeboat and onto dry land.

You obviously are taking a lot of heat in this thread. Some of it you've brought on yourself, although I think you've made a very honest mea culpa about your predictions. You, as much as anyone, will find peace when we forget the Big12, ditch independence, and join a conference.

There's still plenty of room on this bandwagon! (You may have to sit by Flystripper though.)

[Viking]

Persecution complex? I don't have any personal feelings mixed up in this thread (unlike you).

As far as the Big12 goes, whatever happened really doesn't matter to me anymore. Were we in? Who turned down who? Was an offer on the table? None of it matters. This is 2012, and the landscape going forward is ever changing. Worrying about he say/she said from last fall doesn't get us out of the independence lifeboat and onto dry land.

You obviously are taking a lot of heat in this thread. Some of it you've brought on yourself, although I think you've made a very honest mea culpa about your predictions. You, as much as anyone, will find peace when we forget the Big12, ditch independence, and join a conference.

There's still plenty of room on this bandwagon! (You may have to sit by Flystripper though.)

I can take the heat.

[San Juan Sun]

I can take the heat.

I agree. You're doing a fine job.

[LiveCoug]

Persecution complex? I don't have any personal feelings mixed up in this thread (unlike you).

As far as the Big12 goes, whatever happened really doesn't matter to me anymore. Were we in? Who turned down who? Was an offer on the table? None of it matters. This is 2012, and the landscape going forward is ever changing. Worrying about he say/she said from last fall doesn't get us out of the independence lifeboat and onto dry land.

You obviously are taking a lot of heat in this thread. Some of it you've brought on yourself, although I think you've made a very honest mea culpa about your predictions. You, as much as anyone, will find peace when we forget the Big12, ditch independence, and join a conference.

There's still plenty of room on this bandwagon! (You may have to sit by Flystripper though.)

Remember that one time you thought it would be a good idea to go back to the MWC? That was awesome....

[All-American]

They fly out to talk to us and when the end result is that a deal doesn't get done, the "natural inference" is that they weren't that into us? I think you mean, "one possible inference."

The geography argument is puzzling. They turned around and recruited west Virginia.

Also, you now seem to know that Tier 3 rights were an issue. How?

The difference between the distance to Provo and the distance to Morgantown is what lies between them.

[San Juan Sun]

Remember that one time you thought it would be a good idea to go back to the MWC? That was awesome....

When you're stuck in a crappy lifeboat, any dry land looks good.

[ERCougar]

The difference between the distance to Provo and the distance to Morgantown is what lies between them.

[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw= 1680&bih=987&safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=168 0&bih=987&safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&gl=us&saddr=morgantown&daddr=dallas&dirflg=d&geo code=KT0zhUFoezWIMeRDjasJ6b54;KUuXRXv3GUyGMY9nR_ak m-y5&ei=sKbDT9STL4OoiALkveWKCA&sa=X&oi=geocode_resul t&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ9w8wAA"]Morgantown, WV to Dallas, TX - Google Maps[/ame]

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[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&gl=us&saddr=provo&daddr=dallas&dirflg=d&geocode= Kb_xC5Nxkk2HMe9WtQAm8ZAd;KUuXRXv3GUyGMY9nR_akm-y5&ei=6KfDT4DKF4STiAKdzpmiCA&sa=X&oi=geocode_resul t&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ9w8wAA"]Provo, UT to Dallas, TX - Google Maps[/ame]

__________________________________________________ __________

0 miles!

(How crazy is that, BTW?)

[All-American]

Morgantown, WV to Dallas, TX - Google Maps

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Provo, UT to Dallas, TX - Google Maps

__________________________________________________ __________

0 miles!

(How crazy is that, BTW?)

EDIT: I don't know why the link isn't working, but check it out--both are 1202 miles away from Dallas. Weird.

I don't know how to embed a map, but here's a link.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=provo,+ut&daddr=dallas,+tx&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.59616,79.013672&geocode=FXTrZQId2jlY-Sm_8QuTcZJNhzHvVrUAJvGQHQ%3BFYuI9AEdfWg7-ilLl0V79xlMhjGPZ0f2pJvsuQ&t=h&mra=ls&z=6

The two maps tell the story well enough. The road from Dallas to Provo crosses out of texas, through Albuquerque, nearly bisecting the four corners, and up through Utah to Provo. The road to Morgantown crosses through Memphis, Nashville, and Louisville. Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Columbus are just to the north of the road. Birmingham and Atlanta are a few hours to the south. Just north of Morgantown is Pittsburg. Continue just to the east of Morgantown, and you have Baltimore and DC.

And that's why West Virginia is in the Big 12.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have hope. BYU still holds some decent cards.

But it needs to start being managed like a business and not like a utility.

You have been the most confident, the most vocal, yet the least accurate of anyone in this thread. Forgive us if we don't take you too seriously.

[ERCougar]

I don't know how to embed a map, but here's a link.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=provo,+ut&daddr=dallas,+tx&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.59616,79.013672&geocode=FXTrZQId2jlY-Sm_8QuTcZJNhzHvVrUAJvGQHQ%3BFYuI9AEdfWg7-ilLl0V79xlMhjGPZ0f2pJvsuQ&t=h&mra=ls&z=6

The two maps tell the story well enough. The road from Dallas to Provo crosses out of texas, through Albuquerque, nearly bisecting the four corners, and up through Utah to Provo. The road to Morgantown crosses through Memphis, Nashville, and Louisville. Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Columbus are just to the north of the road. Birmingham and Atlanta are a few hours to the south. Just north of Morgantown is Pittsburg. Continue just to the east of Morgantown, and you have Baltimore and DC.

And that's why West Virginia is in the Big 12.

If everyone on the road between any two schools were interested in how those two endpoints played football, that would be a very relevant point.

I'm not arguing that WVU wasn't a good get, probably even a better one than BYU. I'm arguing that their inclusion doesn't necessarily preclude BYU's. If teams in the center (using Dallas as a proxy) are willing to travel to Morgantown, they're willing to get to Provo (which I'm guessing is an easier flight). Also, BYU has the possible of draw of a media market that would otherwise be much less interested in B12 football, which seems to drive much of these discussions.