The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[SeattleUte]

Here is my summary of what I think happened.

Utah and Colorado were in all along as naturals. Texas was a fun project.

No university trustees want BYU because it's too under the control of an ultra-socially conservative and biblically literate religion and too high maintenance (Texas bacially=Cal, Stanford, fucla, Washington).

You'll see; as the years pass and BYU remains on the outside looking in my supposition will be proved right, just as BYU-Utah/Pac eventually was. Ten years ago I used to say what happened re the Pac would happen and no one beleived me. It's all over on CB's archives as well as here.

[LiveCoug]

I heart SU, even more than Erasure!

[SeattleUte]

I heart SU, even more than Erasure!

Texas to the Pac was like Paul is dead (or terminally ill; you may be too young to remember).

[TripletDaddy]

This thread should be retitled, "It's The Great Pumpkin, BYU" due to the striking similarities of people clinging doggedly to fairy tales based on nothing more than whimsy and desperation. We even had a Great Pumpkin moment on Dec 31, 2010, with some of the resident CUF Linuses staying up in hopes of a last second miracle.

This entire collection of entries has all the impending doom and foreboding of The Diary of Anne Frank but with none of the uplifting hope for the future.

[LiveCoug]

This thread should be retitled, "It's The Great Pumpkin, BYU" due to the striking similarities of people clinging doggedly to fairy tales based on nothing more than whimsy and desperation. We even had a Great Pumpkin moment on Dec 31, 2010, with some of the resident CUF Linuses staying up in hopes of a last second miracle.

This entire collection of entries has all the impending doom and foreboding of The Diary of Anne Frank but with none of the uplifting hope for the future.

I heart SU! Oh wait......

[EuropeanFootballMale]

Texas to the Pac was like Paul is dead (or terminally ill; you may be too young to remember).

Turn me on, Seattle man

[USUC]

I think expansion talks will be the norm until the BCS is done away with and some sort of playoff system is installed. last week, Cal's Chancellor said that AD's are discussing BCS conference contraction

Sandy question #4: What's going on with BCS contraction? Will we see fewer BCS conferences in the near future?

Response: This is on the minds of all AD’s right now, as we’re discussing the feasibility of contracting from 6 BCS conferences down to 4 within 4-5 years.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com...lorado-in-2011

The SEC, PAC, Big Ten are all safe. But no other conference is. The likes of Scott and Delaney smell blood and they will continue to strike at anything that benefits them. I don't know if the Big 12 will survive all of this.

[Paperback Writer]

I think expansion talks will be the norm until the BCS is done away with and some sort of playoff system is installed. last week, Cal's Chancellor said that AD's are discussing BCS conference contraction



http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com...lorado-in-2011

The SEC, PAC, Big Ten are all safe. But no other conference is. The likes of Scott and Delaney smell blood and they will continue to strike at anything that benefits them. I don't know if the Big 12 will survive all of this.

I think a good case can be made for including the ACC in that list (along with PAC-12, Big Ten, SEC). All those conferences are at 12 teams. However, the ACC is a little down in football right now because historic powers Miami and Florida St. are not what they once were - but could soon return to the pinnacle of college football. Nevertheless, I also share the thought that the Big 12 may not survive.

I'm not sure if the future of FBS college football is four 16-team super conferences (PAC, Big Ten, SEC, ACC). Perhaps. If that occurs, the simple math is that there are 22* current BCS + teams that will be vying for 16 spots. Programs like Texas, OU, Texas A&M, and Notre Dame will find a home. I think BYU will also when all is said and done. But it's far from certain that this is the destiny of FBS college football.

* The 22 number comes from Big 12+Big East+BYU+Notre Dame+Boise St.

[USUC]

I'm not sure if the future of FBS college football is four 16-team super conferences (PAC, Big Ten, SEC, ACC). Perhaps. If that occurs, the simple math is that there are 22* current BCS + teams that will be vying for 16 spots. Programs like Texas, OU, Texas A&M, and Notre Dame will find a home. I think BYU will also when all is said and done. But it's far from certain that this is the destiny of FBS college football.

* The 22 number comes from Big 12+Big East+BYU+Notre Dame+Boise St.

I'm not so sure BYU or Boise State is in under this scenario. If contraction happens, there will be only 4 slots open in the PAC. That conference has already made it clear it isn't interested in BYU. Geography is BYU's enemy. If the Big 12 is gone, the PAC will make a play for Texas, A&M, OK, and OK State. In the long run I don't think it matters much. If the BCS goes down the road of contraction I can't see how it is sustainable. Unless the PAC, Big 10, SEC, and ACC are able to get rid of the bottom feeders in their conferences, I don't think there is enough political power to continue on with it. For example, how can the PAC justify keeping WSU in this super conference but a program like Kansas gets left out? Contraction would be difficult to do.

[Paperback Writer]

I'm not so sure BYU or Boise State is in under this scenario. If contraction happens, there will be only 4 slots open in the PAC. That conference has already made it clear it isn't interested in BYU. Geography is BYU's enemy. If the Big 12 is gone, the PAC will make a play for Texas, A&M, OK, and OK State. In the long run I don't think it matters much. If the BCS goes down the road of contraction I can't see how it is sustainable. Unless the PAC, Big 10, SEC, and ACC are able to get rid of the bottom feeders in their conferences, I don't think there is enough political power to continue on with it. For example, how can the PAC justify keeping WSU in this super conference but a program like Kansas gets left out? Contraction would be difficult to do.

Totaly agree. There are all kinds of difficulties and political considerations. That's why I think there will not be any more conference expansion for a little while (if ever). But the so-called "bottom feeders" are the issue but only with some conferences and maybe only in the Big 12.

The Big Ten itself doesn't consider any of its members as bottom feeders even though programs like Northwestern, Indiana, and Purdue haven't done much in football lately. The Big Ten prides itself as a conference of equals because it's as much an academic union as a football conference.

In the SEC, Vanderbilt is clearly a bottom feeder in football but it is one of only two SEC univerisites that have AAU membership -a prestigious research/academic affiliation. Vanderbilt gives the SEC some sorely needed academic credibility. But sometimes I wonder if that matters anymore in the SEC. But for the most part, the SEC schools have a long and strong football affiliation.

And there's also political considerations as stated earlier. As long as Washington and Oregon have influence in the PAC (which will be for a long time), their ugly cousins in WSU and OSU will have a home in the PAC. Likewise, Texas may be chained to Texas Tech whether the Longhorns like it or not. Also, Texas politicians and their constituents want to keep Texas and Texas A&M together even though Texas sees itself as a match for the PAC-12 and Texas A&M prefers the SEC. Further, Oklahoma is similarly chained to Oklahoma St.

That's why I agree with you that contraction is difficult and may be politically impossible. Specifically, Texas A&M doesn't want to go to the PAC when they can go to the SEC. Texas may want to go to the PAC but may not be able to do so without taking Texas Tech. Oklahoma is a better match for the SEC than the PAC and the SEC will more eagerly take Oklahoma St. (with OU) then the PAC. And that would leave Texas in the PAC without it's two historic rivals (OU and aTm).

It will be interesting to watch. Instability in the Big 12 may cause some dominoes to fall. The 2500-lb bull (or steer) in the room is Texas. With the new Longhorn network, it won't be long until there is a huge revenue disparity between Texas and the rest of the Big 12. Many of the other programs have no choice then to put up with it but schools like Oklahoma and Texas A&M will have other options - most likely in the SEC. And if they decide to bolt the Big 12 or if Texas declares it's football independence, then it will get very interesting. If Texas A&M, OU, and Okie St. land in the SEC, then there might be openings in the PAC for BYU if the PAC feels the need to keep up with the arms race. In other words, Stanford and Berkeley might have to hold their noses and let BYU in (or not).

[TripletDaddy]

[SeattleUte]

This thread reminds me of that scene in Annie Hall where Alvie Singer can't have sex because he's talking constantly about JFK assassination conspiracy theories.

[shoganai]

I truly believe 16-team conferences are coming. But, the powers that be won't get away with limiting them to four.

Too many big schools in the voting districts of powerful legislators will be left out. There will be five 16-team conferences. The Big 12 - in some form - will survive.

[Red Legger]

Right now the Big 12 is unstable.

The Jayhawks are about to take on a top 25 schedule where we play at #1 OU/#19 Okie State/#12 aTm. As consolation we get #19 UT in Lawrence and only have to play #21 Missoura at a neutral site in camarohead in KC. Just for kicks, we also have 4 other 2010 bowl teams to deal w/ (TxTech/GaTech/N Ill/KSU). Relative to the old Big 12 Norte, that is a brutal grind. Unless you've done it for 100 years, it's hard to explain how brutal a game in Norman is for a long term rival. I give KU's new AD about 10 months to realize how screwed the football Jayhawks are in a 10 team Big 12. I already suspect that the other Norte remnants have no illusions as to the mess they're in (ie, the Bucktoothed Wizard, the Pickle at Missoura and Rhodes at ISU). I expect that very soon after this season for a consensus to develop amongst the Norte remnants and expansion back to 12 or dissolution of the Big 12 to follow quickly.

Rock Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[Paperback Writer]

The Jayhawks are about to take on a top 25 schedule where we play at #1 OU/#19 Okie State/#12 aTm. As consolation we get #19 UT in Lawrence and only have to play #21 Missoura at a neutral site in camarohead in KC. Just for kicks, we also have 4 other 2010 bowl teams to deal w/ (TxTech/GaTech/N Ill/KSU). Relative to the old Big 12 Norte, that is a brutal grind. Unless you've done it for 100 years, it's hard to explain how brutal a game in Norman is for a long term rival. I give KU's new AD about 10 months to realize how screwed the football Jayhawks are in a 10 team Big 12. I already suspect that the other Norte remnants have no illusions as to the mess they're in (ie, the Bucktoothed Wizard, the Pickle at Missoura and Rhodes at ISU). I expect that very soon after this season for a consensus to develop amongst the Norte remnants and expansion back to 12 or dissolution of the Big 12 to follow quickly.

Rock Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

You post like you just got out of bed this morning and realized that Jayhawk football is "screwed" with the new-10 team Big 12. That's only because recent departures: Nebraska is not in "dynasty mode" and Colordo has really dropped off. Is KU football in any worse shape than a decade ago when Colorado was good, Nebraska hadn't yet fallen, and KSU would make a run about every other year. I guess Missouri wasn't as good back then as they are now. Point is, Jayhawk football has been somewhat of a mess for awhile.

But I do hold out some hope that Turner Gill can preform miraculous things and that Missouri is also successful (stay with me on this one). In short, Kansas and Missouri somehow become a Texas and OU. The reason for this hope is that Kansas and Missouri become attractive to the Big Ten and Jim Delaney opens the door. Then Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa can become a division in a 16-team Big Ten conference. Perhaps a pipe dream.