"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

a/to ratio? Did I just take a step into 2005?!

His TS% has always been right around average or just above average for his position and his pure point rating has been fine.

But that's not really what we're talking about. BGR said he's struggled since coming back from injury. I said that's expected coming back from surgery on your dominant hand. Nothing more to it than that.

In my mind it is yet another finger pointing at Corbin. Sure, most coaches probably make the same move. But Mo coming back from a dominant hand wrist injury, and talking about how weak his hand feels, and yet he's thrust right back into the starting lineup, given 25 mg, and is viewed as a viable option in crunch time even though his play has been atrocious. Why? Because Corbin is in over his head, has no authority over the team, and because Mo is a vet.

This really would be a minor quibble with Corbin because he was starting Watson or Tinsley while Mo was out. But Burks was playing really well while Mo was out and his minutes have dipped since his return, and while Burks was playing well late in games I think you could easily argue that he should've stayed at point to close out games until Mo's wrist was all the way back. But even these minor complaints about Corbin add to the snowball that keeps one pissed at the coach and hoping he'll be gone this off-season.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I did like that G-Hay took more shots than Al and that Favors had five blocks.

Hayward 1-6 from 3, 6-14 from the field, and he still had 20 points on those 14 shots. Kanter has 12 points on 6 shots. Jefferson had 8 on 13. The Jazz as a team shot 33 FTs; Millsap was the only starter who shot any.

I bitch and moan all of the time about wanting the young guys to play more. But man was I hoping that Corbin would put his starters back in to play the last 5 minutes of the game last night. Would never happen because it'd be a coach showing up the vets, but other than not starting them the next game wouldn't that be the best way to show them that their effort that night was unacceptable? Don't let them sit on the bench and just flush the game and move on. Shame them into doing their jobs that they get paid $15 M to do.

[MarkGrace]

This really would be a minor quibble with Corbin because he was starting Watson or Tinsley while Mo was out. But Burks was playing really well while Mo was out and his minutes have dipped since his return, and while Burks was playing well late in games I think you could easily argue that he should've stayed at point to close out games until Mo's wrist was all the way back. But even these minor complaints about Corbin add to the snowball that keeps one pissed at the coach and hoping he'll be gone this off-season.

Yeah, maybe. None of these guys are good enough at PG that it's an easy call. After Mo you have Tinsley and Watson, who are terrible. And as much as I like Burks, he still makes me queasy at PG, especially with pressure. He keeps his handle pretty low, but it gets away from his body a lot and into a bad space. He's been ripped in the backcourt several times down the stretch on very critical possessions. Most recently in that Detroit game, he played until about the 5:00 mark in the 4th, and it seemed like Detroit was taking him out of every position and the lead was about gone. They finally took the ball out of his hands and had Hayward bring the ball up and run 3-4 plays in a row. The whole offense looked a lot more composed on those possessions and we got some points out of it. Then Mo came back in and basically sealed it.

Not really sure what you do, to be honest. It's not exactly a McLeod > Williams sort of thing.

[The_Douger]

I'm sure glad they made Corbin their priority. You've got to extend the contract of an unproven idiot before worrying about talent and ability. It's a recipe for success.

Well, being Greg Miller is hard. It's tough to have to follow your father, who had his mistakes(Ben Handlotion, John Amaechi), but generally did a pretty good job.

[Blueintheface]

Hayward 1-6 from 3, 6-14 from the field, and he still had 20 points on those 14 shots. Kanter has 12 points on 6 shots. Jefferson had 8 on 13. The Jazz as a team shot 33 FTs; Millsap was the only starter who shot any.

I bitch and moan all of the time about wanting the young guys to play more. But man was I hoping that Corbin would put his starters back in to play the last 5 minutes of the game last night. Would never happen because it'd be a coach showing up the vets, but other than not starting them the next game wouldn't that be the best way to show them that their effort that night was unacceptable? Don't let them sit on the bench and just flush the game and move on. Shame them into doing their jobs that they get paid $15 M to do.

Corbin is definitely feeling the pressure at this point finally and it's beginning to show. I have no real connection to Spence Checketts but apparently Corbin was really snarky to him in an interview the other day and has been less "cliched" in his answers re: the young guys with much of the local media. Not surprising given the 2-8 stretch really, but given the direction the team is headed and the daunting schedule I wouldn't be surprised at all if Corbin were terminated at season's end. Anyone at this point can see the ship is sinking and other than playing Evans the other night, Corbin has done very little to change the course heading. The inmates can simply not run the assylum.

[MarkGrace]

Well, being Greg Miller is hard. It's tough to have to follow your father, who had his mistakes(Ben Handlotion, John Amaechi), but generally did a pretty good job.

Those are the mistakes you come up? Wasn't Handlotion playing for like the league minimum? Amaechi has to be up there among the worst signings in the LHM era, but the top two are definitely Tag and AK.

[Blueintheface]

Well, being Greg Miller is hard. It's tough to have to follow your father, who had his mistakes(Ben Handlotion, John Amaechi), but generally did a pretty good job.

As I remember it Miller had input but left final personnel decisions to the GM and his team, right? Maybe he had more influence than I remember.

[The_Douger]

Those are the mistakes you come up? Wasn't Handlotion playing for like the league minimum? Amaechi has to be up there among the worst signings in the LHM era, but the top two are definitely Tag and AK.

I just hated wasting a roster spot on Handlotion. He was a scrub.

I like AK more than you do. Agreed on Tag.

But I mostly was just joking around. Because I wanted to write out "Handlotion".

[The_Douger]

Corbin is definitely feeling the pressure at this point finally and it's beginning to show. I have no real connection to Spence Checketts but apparently Corbin was really snarky to him in an interview the other day and has been less "cliched" in his answers re: the young guys with much of the local media. Not surprising given the 2-8 stretch really, but given the direction the team is headed and the daunting schedule I wouldn't be surprised at all if Corbin were terminated at season's end. Anyone at this point can see the ship is sinking and other than playing Evans the other night, Corbin has done very little to change the course heading. The inmates can simply not run the assylum.

I'd fire Corbin, but I don't think they will. Of course, I'd have never hired him on a permanent basis.

Whoever said to get one of the Van Gundy's in here had the right idea.

[The_Douger]

As I remember it Miller had input but left final personnel decisions to the GM and his team, right? Maybe he had more influence than I remember.

I don't remember exactly. It seemed if he liked guys they'd be on the team. But I don't know.

I really liked Larry overall. He came to a youth conference and gave one of the best talks I've ever heard. His son was married to one of the girls that grew up in my ward. After that, I always admired all he did and accomplished.

[MarkGrace]

Corbin is definitely feeling the pressure at this point finally and it's beginning to show. I have no real connection to Spence Checketts but apparently Corbin was really snarky to him in an interview the other day and has been less "cliched" in his answers re: the young guys with much of the local media. Not surprising given the 2-8 stretch really, but given the direction the team is headed and the daunting schedule I wouldn't be surprised at all if Corbin were terminated at season's end. Anyone at this point can see the ship is sinking and other than playing Evans the other night, Corbin has done very little to change the course heading. The inmates can simply not run the assylum.

The last week or two is really the first time I've thought canning him after this season was a possibility. Lindsey was asked about it a couple weeks ago, and he showed no commitment to sticking with him at all.

Honestly I think the dude is in a tough position. I know everyone wants to see the young guys play, and I do too, but personally I don't subscribe to the idea that they give you better odds of winning. Out of all the spots on the floor where you can pit a young guy versus a vet, I think only one who is clearly better than his counterpart options is Hayward. The rest, at best, are just a wash. So, in my estimation, if you play the kids big minutes, you're conceding some losses for the sake of possible* development. A first time coach just can't afford to do that. Corbin has no track record in the league. He fails here, and he's not getting another head gig for a long time, if ever. Not really an ideal coaching scenario for the Jazz right now.

*I'm going with possible here because the latest Sloan analytics conference had a big section on early development and there was no conclusive evidence that giving young players a free reign of minutes leads to greater overall development in the long-run.

[MarkGrace]

I just hated wasting a roster spot on Handlotion. He was a scrub.

I like AK more than you do. Agreed on Tag.

But I mostly was just joking around. Because I wanted to write out "Handlotion".

Handlotion was always a great nickname.

btw, I love AK. It's part of the reason I get ticked off about him pissing away his ability. And giving him a max deal was always a disaster waiting to happen.

[The_Douger]

The last week or two is really the first time I've thought canning him after this season was a possibility. Lindsey was asked about it a couple weeks ago, and he showed no commitment to sticking with him at all.

Honestly I think the dude is in a tough position. I know everyone wants to see the young guys play, and I do too, but personally I don't subscribe to the idea that they give you better odds of winning. Out of all the spots on the floor where you can pit a young guy versus a vet, I think only one who is clearly better than his counterpart options is Hayward. The rest, at best, are just a wash. So, in my estimation, if you play the kids big minutes, you're conceding some losses for the sake of possible* development. A first time coach just can't afford to do that. Corbin has no track record in the league. He fails here, and he's not getting another head gig for a long time, if ever. Not really an ideal coaching scenario for the Jazz right now.

*I'm going with possible here because despite because the latest Sloan analytics conference had a big section on early development and there was no conclusive evidence that giving young players a free reign of minutes leads to greater overall development in the long-run.

That may or may not be the case. The thing is, the majority of the vets on this team aren't going to be back, so if you're going to lose either way, it's better to lose with the young guys who have a future here and can learn and progress as a players and as a team. The future core of the team needs time to gel and come together, and it should have been this year that they were doing that, building around Hayward, Kanter, and Favors; so as these guys improve they can maybe get a few years where that group turns in to something special while they are still on cheap contracts. That's just part of the woes of being a small market that can't attract marquee FAs.

What's frustrating to me as a fan is seeing the coach be so obstinate about it. It's like hell or high water, he's going to play who he's going to play, even if guys like Kanter show us something.

Don't you think a guy like Kanter has shown he's a lot tougher inside defensively, as well as more efficient than a guy like Al?

I don't look at sites like 82games and all that, but just from my observations, it seems like Kanter takes many fewer shots to get his points, rebounds better than Al, is better at defense than Al, and gets to the line at a better rate than Al. So, I see no reason to not have moved Al, even for little to nothing, because it's addition by subtraction at this point.

But, you know more about basketball than I do, so correct me if my observations are retarded.

[smokymountainrain]

if you play the kids big minutes, you're conceding some losses for the sake of possible* development. A first time coach just can't afford to do that. Corbin has no track record in the league. He fails here, and he's not getting another head gig for a long time, if ever. Not really an ideal coaching scenario for the Jazz right now.

*I'm going with possible here because the latest Sloan analytics conference had a big section on early development and there was no conclusive evidence that giving young players a free reign of minutes leads to greater overall development in the long-run.

From a different perspective...If you play the veterans big minutes you're conceding some development for the sake of the *possibility of more wins.

*I say possibility because there sure as hell doesn't seem to be any evidence that playing the vets and sitting the youngsters helps the team win basketball games.

Can a first time coach afford to play veterans and lose, while not playing young players and possibility stunting their development at the same time? Losing + sacrificing young player development to give mediocre veterans minutes doesn't seem like a recipe for success for a first time coach. At least if he throws caution to the wind and goes with the young guys, he has an excuse for losing. Playing Mo, Al, Foye and Sap 30+ minutes or in crunch time and still coming up on the losing end looks really, really, (thanks, Bronco!) bad.

[The_Douger]

Handlotion was always a great nickname.

btw, I love AK. It's part of the reason I get ticked off about him pissing away his ability. And giving him a max deal was always a disaster waiting to happen.

Well, he had All Star potential, and he did piss it away somewhat, but I felt Jerry Sloan and him weren't a good mix either. Sloan was a stubborn enough individual that I didn't feel he tried to integrate AK's unique talent package as well as he could have. The weird thing is, we were kind of only competing with ourselves when he got that deal, so it was like the time the Knicks gave Allan Houston a huge deal when nobody else was going to do that.

Ideally it would have been best if they gave him a deal for 9-10 million a year and he worked hard and became a poor man's Scottie Pippen.