"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[The_Douger]

They should package Hayward and Sap to OKC for Harden and pay Harden.

[Mormon Red Death]

They should package Hayward and Sap to OKC for Harden and pay Harden.

[ame="http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8mjur29"]NBA Trade Machine - ESPN[/ame]

[smokymountainrain]

Based on what we've seen so far, I'd rather see mwill at the 3 than sap. I'd also rather see him than howard and cj. In short, I see no reason to complain about mwill at the 3. Sap wasn't playing enough minutes at the 3 to make your argument above of any consequence. The only way to make any real difference to kanter and sexual favors minutes is to unclog the 4/5 spot. My feeling right now is it will be sap, but who knows. And I'm not sure what they go after either. I guess maybe pg.

I agree that Marvin may be better than Sap at the three so I’m not necessarily complaining about that. I also agree that Sap probably hasn’t ever played enough minutes at the three to make much difference anyway. But without Marvin Williams, the option to have Sap play some minutes there is available. If you need to get Favors or Kanter extra minutes, Millsap, while he hasn’t in the past, could go there and play significant minutes. Also, sans Marvin, you have the ability to play Hayward several minutes there opening up minutes for Burks at the two. With Marvin, you don’t see Sap ever log minutes there and Hayward’s minutes at the three are extremely limited. Yes, Marvin is probably a tad better than Sap or Hayward at the three, but in the big picture, his playing 30+ mpg doesn’t affect the win/loss column for the Jazz, but it does severly stunt the development of the Jazz young players who need minutes in order to get better.

[The_Douger]

I doubt they'd be willing to move Perkins in that deal.

[Maximus]

They should package Hayward and Sap to OKC for Harden and pay Harden.

like OKC would even consider it.

[MarkGrace]

I agree that Marvin may be better than Sap at the three so I’m not necessarily complaining about that. I also agree that Sap probably hasn’t ever played enough minutes at the three to make much difference anyway. But without Marvin Williams, the option to have Sap play some minutes there is available. If you need to get Favors or Kanter extra minutes, Millsap, while he hasn’t in the past, could go there and play significant minutes. Also, sans Marvin, you have the ability to play Hayward several minutes there opening up minutes for Burks at the two. With Marvin, you don’t see Sap ever log minutes there and Hayward’s minutes at the three are extremely limited. Yes, Marvin is probably a tad better than Sap or Hayward at the three, but in the big picture, his playing 30+ mpg doesn’t affect the win/loss column for the Jazz, but it does severly stunt the development of the Jazz young players who need minutes in order to get better.

This is a whole bunch of coulds and shoulds that involve playing guys at positions they're not suited to play. I liked Sap at the 3 in that big lineup, but it's nothing more than a limited use lineup, the type that loses effectiveness the longer you go with it. Sap played just 5% of the available minutes at the 3. Presumably he won't get any of those minutes this year. But even assuming Marv isn't on the team and you give those minutes back to Sap, again, the total of them is so inconsequential you're not making any tangible difference in what you can give to Favors/Kanter. I don't see the point when there's a much more obvious solution that achieves a better result, and that's just unclogging the 4/5. That gives you 96 minutes at the 4/5 for Kanter/Favors/whoever, and 96 minutes between the 2/3 for guys who actually play wing positions (Marv, Hayward, Burks, etc.)

Your preseason complaining is just aimed in the wrong direction right now (especially when Marv has actually looked really good). Focus on the 4/5 and Randy Foye getting minutes at the 2.

[The_Douger]

like OKC would even consider it.

Sure they would. They aren't willing to pay him. The Jazz should pay him. Until they re-sign him, I think it's in play.

[Blueintheface]

A making guard in Utah? Surely you jest.

[Eddie]

They should package Hayward and Sap to OKC for Harden and pay Harden.

I can't even look at Harden without remembering that travesy of a game in which every time a BYU player breathed, farted, or even LOOKED his direction, Harden was at the line shooting free throws.

I'm not sure I could stand to watch the Jazz with Harden on the team.

But I suppose I could get over it. And it really isn't Harden's fault. The ref's from that game are the ones who really need a kick in the crotch.

[MarkGrace]

Insider article on 10 things to watch this season:

7. Is Enes Kanter the early favorite for MVP?

Just kidding. In all seriousness, have you seen this guy in the preseason? So far, the Utah big man has displayed a combination of brute strength and stellar productivity that has Jazz fans experiencing sudden flashbacks to a young Karl Malone. Kanter reportedly shed 50 pounds since his peak weight upon arrival in Utah, then put on 20 pounds of muscle in the offseason. His numbers this preseason? 13.1 points and 9.3 rebounds in just 21.1 minutes a game.

People forget that he turned 20 a few months ago, so this guy is just getting started in his NBA career. The Jazz have a good problem on their hands in that they have four starter-caliber big men in Paul Millsap, Derrick Favors, Al Jefferson and Kanter. Keep a close eye on the Jazz; a breakout season from Kanter could open up all sorts of trade possibilities.

Per 36 he's at 22.4 points and 16 rebs. Obviously he's going up against NBA scrubs, but it's a far cry from where he was 3-4 months ago going up against non-NBA players.

[The_Douger]

A making guard in Utah? Surely you jest.

Heaven forbid we actually have a shooting guard that could actually shoot.

It's all about 2 things in the NBA, wing players or a great center.

Wings are easier to find and build around. There's like three good centers in the league. Utah doesn't have any of them. Favors has some potential there, but he's a limited scorer. He can certainly anchor a defense about 1000x's better than anyone else the Jazz have there right now, and that's important as well.

PG is the least important position. Very few title teams have won with a dominant PG. People might point to Billups, but that was his one and only time. People might point to Tony Parker having a great series at one point and winning Finals MVP, but we all know that was built around Duncan. Previous to those two, Isiah Thomas was the best PG to win a title. No, I'm not counting Magic because he wasn't a small player that dominated. He was rangy and long and didn't necessarily play like a typical PG. In fact, he was more like a wing that handled the ball, like Lebron.

But, title teams are littered with great centers and great wing guys. Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Bird, Olajuwon, Duncan, Jordan, Pippen, etc. Those names have won a majority of recent titles.

Until the Jazz learn this and get away from the stupid, predictable pick and roll, they will never have significant success. they need a more free flowing offense that's less rigid. The three point shot is a huge part of successful offenses these days. The Jazz need to focus on getting guys that can take and make that shot. They also need to be a lot better defensively, and that means dropping empty stats guys like Al Jefferson, and that means dropping guys that don't defend like Al Jefferson.

The Jazz also have a lot of young talent that Corbin isn't playing enough minutes to develop them. Alex Burks is the first one that comes to mind. Favors and Kanter need more minutes as well, and they're not going to get it with the veteran minded Corbin as the coach. I'm not really sure what Hayward is at this point. He teases us sometimes, but he's wildly inconsistent.

[The_Douger]

I can't even look at Harden without remembering that travesy of a game in which every time a BYU player breathed, farted, or even LOOKED his direction, Harden was at the line shooting free throws.

I'm not sure I could stand to watch the Jazz with Harden on the team.

But I suppose I could get over it. And it really isn't Harden's fault. The ref's from that game are the ones who really need a kick in the crotch.

That game was lame. The tip in was before the buzzer as well.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Insider article on 10 things to watch this season:



Per 36 he's at 22.4 points and 16 rebs. Obviously he's going up against NBA scrubs, but it's a far cry from where he was 3-4 months ago going up against non-NBA players.

2nd highest rebound rate in the preseason of players playing 10+ mpg (just barley behind Asik). If the Jazz were nervous about moving Millsap or Jefferson because they weren't sure what they'd get out of Kanter, hopefully those doubts have been dampened a bit.

Kanter is still a pup in the game. He's got to get meaningful minutes. Well, that is if the Jazz are interested in actually trying to build a team that can do something in the post-season, and not just one that will make the playoffs each year. It is going to be incredibly frustrating if the trade deadline comes and Utah still isn't sure what they've got in Kanter and Burks.

[smokymountainrain]

Insider article on 10 things to watch this season:



Per 36 he's at 22.4 points and 16 rebs. Obviously he's going up against NBA scrubs, but it's a far cry from where he was 3-4 months ago going up against non-NBA players.

Howard and Gasol played most of the game in LA and Aldridge played about 35 minutes last night. I know that's a common excuse for when a young guy does well in pre-season, but I often doubt the validity of it.

[smokymountainrain]

Burks ended preseason hitting on 64% of his threes.