The Official Ute Basketball Thread

[Katy Lied]

I think Boylen's blind loyalty, while admirable in a man, does him a disservice as a coach. Conversely, it seems that once Boylen decides that you're not going to be his star player, he cuts the player loose faster than a speeding bullet. I am still wondering what happened with Daniel Deane and Carlon Brown.

Dave Rose is great at "what have you done for me lately," and promptly sits or plays a player instantly. Look at Davies vs. USU and Davies vs. Creighton.

I think Boylen's needs to know how to pitch PT without angering his players. He needs to figure out how to sit a player and still appeal to his sense of team comraderie, and at the same time hold out hope to the player that should the player develop, or should the team come to need him, that player will be on the court.

Rose talked Tavernari into being an effective 6th man, even tho Tav was used to star billing.

I agree with Monson that a coach should take responsibility for the players he recruits, and lesser so the players he inherits. All this cuttin' players into the wind brings a coach a bad rep.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I am glad to hear that Jace Tavita is gone. That makes yet another Boylen recruit that was a miserable failure. Boylen's recruiting track record is not looking good right now.

[SeattleUte]

Does this mean we can recruit more than one player this year?

[LA Ute]

I think Boylen's blind loyalty, while admirable in a man, does him a disservice as a coach. Conversely, it seems that once Boylen decides that you're not going to be his star player, he cuts the player loose faster than a speeding bullet. I am still wondering what happened with Daniel Deane and Carlon Brown.

Dave Rose is great at "what have you done for me lately," and promptly sits or plays a player instantly. Look at Davies vs. USU and Davies vs. Creighton.

I think Boylen's needs to know how to pitch PT without angering his players. He needs to figure out how to sit a player and still appeal to his sense of team comraderie, and at the same time hold out hope to the player that should the player develop, or should the team come to need him, that player will be on the court.

Rose talked Tavernari into being an effective 6th man, even tho Tav was used to star billing.

I agree with Monson that a coach should take responsibility for the players he recruits, and lesser so the players he inherits. All this cuttin' players into the wind brings a coach a bad rep.

Majerus was once asked in a TV interview how he got his teams to play so unselfishly. His two-word answer is a classic: "The bench."

I don't think Boylen buys into that secret to good coaching.

[myboynoah]

This is a cute thread.

[BoylenOver]

I am still wondering what happened with Daniel Deane and Carlon Brown.

Daniel Deane didn't take academics seriously at all.

[cougjunkie]

Daniel Deane didn't take academics seriously at all.

I think people need to look at Boylens recruiting more than anything.

Look at the guys that have left the program:

Daniel Deane- averaged 3 pts per game and 12 minutes for Oregon St last year, averaging under 1 point this year.

Matt Read- ends up at Lubbock Christian WTF is that. At least he is doing something averaging 14 and 8. Big game this week against Our Lady of the Lake University. (That is not a joke)

Marshall henderson- Texas Tech maybe the most respectable school but still average at best.

Jordan Cyphers- Tennessee St. Are they even D-1? Looks like he is redshirting.

Carlon Brown- Colorado.

It is not like these guys are in high demand when they leave for a program like Utah they should not be losing guys to Tenn. St and Lubbock Christian. Is that really the talent level Boylen is landing?

[BoylenOver]

I think people need to look at Boylens recruiting more than anything.

Look at the guys that have left the program:

Daniel Deane- averaged 3 pts per game and 12 minutes for Oregon St last year, averaging under 1 point this year.

Matt Read- ends up at Lubbock Christian WTF is that. At least he is doing something averaging 14 and 8. Big game this week against Our Lady of the Lake University. (That is not a joke)

Marshall henderson- Texas Tech maybe the most respectable school but still average at best.

Jordan Cyphers- Tennessee St. Are they even D-1? Looks like he is redshirting.

Carlon Brown- Colorado.

It is not like these guys are in high demand when they leave for a program like Utah they should not be losing guys to Tenn. St and Lubbock Christian. Is that really the talent level Boylen is landing?

Deane and Brown are both Giacoletti recruits. And at least with Cyphers, Utah wasn't the only program that thought highly of him. You'll get no disagreement with me regarding those other guys.

[DrumNFeather]

Does this mean we can recruit more than one player this year?

Nope. We had no spaces for 2011 and still signed one player. Unless more transfers are coming, we're still full on scholarships.

[myboynoah]

Nope. We had no spaces for 2011 and still signed one player. Unless more transfers are coming, we're still full on scholarships.

Isn't there some kind of scholarship penalty/limit imposed to prevent schools from dumping kids in favor of potentially better players. If so, I wonder how Calipari does it when he loses his whole freshman class year after year.

[DrumNFeather]

Isn't there some kind of scholarship penalty/limit imposed to prevent schools from dumping kids in favor of potentially better players. If so, I wonder how Calipari does it when he loses his whole freshman class year after year.

There's like a 5-3 rule for that, like you can bring in 5 one year and 3 the next or something. If a player leaves on his own you can probably bring in more (I'm guessing).

[Katy Lied]

Yes Deane is not doing so hot now, but look at the past 7 years of Mr. Basketball. Look how the ones who went to Utah developed vs. the ones who went to BYU or Utah State:

2003 Josh Olson Utah
2004 Tai Wesley Utah State
2005 Jackson Emery BYU
2006 Daniel Deane Utah
2007 Morgan Grim Utah / Utah State
2008 Tyler Haws BYU
2009 Tyler Haws BYU
2010 Kyle Collinsworth BYU

[Senioritis]

Nope. We had no spaces for 2011 and still signed one player. Unless more transfers are coming, we're still full on scholarships.

Right on. We lose Jay Watkins and Jace Tavita, we get George Matthews and Josh Sharp back from his stint as a travelling religious salesman.

[cougjunkie]

Yes Deane is not doing so hot now, but look at the past 7 years of Mr. Basketball. Look how the ones who went to Utah developed vs. the ones who went to BYU or Utah State:

2003 Josh Olson Utah
2004 Tai Wesley Utah State
2005 Jackson Emery BYU
2006 Daniel Deane Utah
2007 Morgan Grim Utah / Utah State
2008 Tyler Haws BYU
2009 Tyler Haws BYU
2010 Kyle Collinsworth BYU

Exactly my point. Olson ended up at UVU right?

[Senioritis]

I think people need to look at Boylens recruiting more than anything.

Look at the guys that have left the program:

Daniel Deane- averaged 3 pts per game and 12 minutes for Oregon St last year, averaging under 1 point this year.

Matt Read- ends up at Lubbock Christian WTF is that. At least he is doing something averaging 14 and 8. Big game this week against Our Lady of the Lake University. (That is not a joke)

Marshall henderson- Texas Tech maybe the most respectable school but still average at best.

Jordan Cyphers- Tennessee St. Are they even D-1? Looks like he is redshirting.

Carlon Brown- Colorado.

It is not like these guys are in high demand when they leave for a program like Utah they should not be losing guys to Tenn. St and Lubbock Christian. Is that really the talent level Boylen is landing?

As mentioned, Dean was a Giac recruit, but the dude had serious interest from Kansas and Stanford.

Read had offers from Michigan and the mighty Billikens and their saintly coach.

Henderson had offers from the Zags, Marquette, and Stanford.

Cyphers was a whiff.

Brown had offers from Marquette and UNLV.

I guess what I'm saying is that Boylen's recruiting doesn't seem that far off when you look at these guys out of high school. They have pretty good offers, they seem at least somewhat promising. The issue is that they all seem worse than they should be after time spent in a program. Either talent evaluation or development is the problem, and right now I'm leaning toward development.

Three other things:

Right now, Neal Monson is the only Utah kid on the whole roster. Neal Freaking Monson. Next year, Sharp will be back, and he'll be the lone Utah kid on the roster while Monson goes out to get doors slammed in his face and question his life choices. I'm not sure what needs to be done, but I don't think Morgan Grimm is the difference. Perhaps a D1 athlete from somewhere in the greater Salt Lake area would be a good start. Still looking!

JJ O'Brien, from what I saw at a couple of practices, is the most game ready freshman that Boylen has recruited to date. He's not fantastic at anything, but he's a hell of a blender and was slated to start in front of Jay Watkins. Also, George Matthews seems to be most highly regarded guy that Boylen has signed. If trends continue, I don't know that it matters. But we'll see.

Boylen took Luke Neville, Shaun Green, Tyler Kepkay, and Lawrence Freaking Borha, and won a conference title about 20 months ago. I haven't totally forgotten that, but we gotsta get past losing to ORU.