J.K. Rowling and the TERF wars

[Jeff Lebowski]

Let's examine Scotland's recent track record in policing speech:

In 2016, Scottish comedian Mark Meechan decided to pull a prank on his girlfriend who was always raving about how cute and adorable her little pug was, so he secretly taught the dog to do a Nazi salute and filmed the dog doing the salute with a tiny Hitler mustache and put it on Youtube. Most people thought it was hilarious, but he was arrested, tried, and convicted in 2018 and fined 800 pounds for violating hate speech laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Meechan

Don't worry Scottish women! Something like this could never happen to you.

[Bo Diddley]

Let's examine Scotland's recent track record in policing speech:

In 2016, Scottish comedian Mark Meechan decided to pull a prank on his girlfriend who was always raving about how cute and adorable her little pug was, so he secretly taught the dog to do a Nazi salute and filmed the dog doing the salute with a tiny Hitler mustache and put it on Youtube. Most people thought it was hilarious, but he was arrested, tried, and convicted in 2018 and fined 800 pounds for violating hate speech laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Meechan

Don't worry Scottish women! Something like this could never happen to you.

Holy crap! That's nuts. Money well spent.

[fusnik]

They are easy to find. Google some BBC articles if you like.

Fascinating how you are such an apologist for free speech restrictions. So those women in Scotland should just shut up and trust that the government will not infringe on their rights and every decision they make on which cases to prosecute will be correct and fair, right? Just ignore the cases where the government allows rapists to go to a women's prison because of their preferred gender identity. The government is always right! Unless of course, the government decides put restrictions on life-altering surgeries and hormone treatments to minors. You can't trust them with that decision.

WTF are you going on about?

I’m literally the only one on this website who in the last week has spoken with an actual lawyer and psychologist in Scotland about this.

Both said there are pros and cons of this new law. Neither seemed bothered that their free speech rights were being infringed, in fact the lawyer told me there’s an argument to be made that the new law enhances and clarifies a decades old free speech law. Primary concern they had was clogging up police resources when the police recently announced they would stop investigating low level crimes. The psychologist expressed concerns about Scotlands liberal and extreme posture towards trans healthcare, specifically in youth (which I’ve already posted in this thread), and their hopes going forward in regard to vulnerable folks and how to carve a path forward. They hoped this law would further shine light on a complex problem.

The biggest concern they both had was, what happens when Celtic and Rangers fans fight, could it be misconstrued as a religious squabble and have criminal enhancements added to any charges.

Most articles from reputable news sources mirror what they told me.

But I’ll leave you to educate yourself with Elon and Ian Miles Cheong and JKR and the trans activists online.

[falafel]

WTF are you going on about?

I’m literally the only one on this website who in the last week has spoken with an actual lawyer and psychologist in Scotland about this.

Both said there are pros and cons of this new law. Neither seemed bothered that their free speech rights were being infringed, in fact the lawyer told me there’s an argument to be made that the new law enhances and clarifies a decades old free speech law. Primary concern they had was clogging up police resources when the police recently announced they would stop investigating low level crimes. The psychologist expressed concerns about Scotlands liberal and extreme posture towards trans healthcare, specifically in youth (which I’ve already posted in this thread), and their hopes going forward in regard to vulnerable folks and how to carve a path forward. They hoped this law would further shine light on a complex problem.

The biggest concern they both had was, what happens when Celtic and Rangers fans fight, could it be misconstrued as a religious squabble and have criminal enhancements added to any charges.

Most articles from reputable news sources mirror what they told me.

But I’ll leave you to educate yourself with Elon and Ian Miles Cheong and JKR and the trans activists online.

[Jeff Lebowski]

WTF are you going on about?

I’m literally the only one on this website who in the last week has spoken with an actual lawyer and psychologist in Scotland about this.

Both said there are pros and cons of this new law. Neither seemed bothered that their free speech rights were being infringed, in fact the lawyer told me there’s an argument to be made that the new law enhances and clarifies a decades old free speech law. Primary concern they had was clogging up police resources when the police recently announced they would stop investigating low level crimes. The psychologist expressed concerns about Scotlands liberal and extreme posture towards trans healthcare, specifically in youth (which I’ve already posted in this thread), and their hopes going forward in regard to vulnerable folks and how to carve a path forward. They hoped this law would further shine light on a complex problem.

The biggest concern they both had was, what happens when Celtic and Rangers fans fight, could it be misconstrued as a religious squabble and have criminal enhancements added to any charges.

Most articles from reputable news sources mirror what they told me.

So you talked to two people? Cool. I guess that settles it.

But I’ll leave you to educate yourself with Elon and Ian Miles Cheong and JKR and the trans activists online.

Oh brother.

[Maximus]

so youre calling out incidents which have nothing to do with this topic?

[fusnik]

So you talked to two people? Cool. I guess that settles it.

Oh brother.

I talked to two people in country who happen to be experts in their fields, read mutilple different articles granted I’m super ignorant when it comes to law and rely heavily on the views of others to synthesize info, and listened to a couple podcasts from Scottish people.

When you were pressed on your understanding of the topic you posted this:

Which is exactly what it was widely assumed to cover following the recent changes. Again, as evidenced by the words of countless trans activists.

A ‘widely’ assumed understanding of a law evidenced by ‘countless’ trans activists.

Honestly one of the and funniest things ever written on this board.

You've now pivoted to free speech advocacy. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on something relevant to Utah:

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39873588/police-say-racial-slur-audible-utah-women-basketball-team

[Jeff Lebowski]

I talked to two people in country who happen to be experts in their fields, read mutilple different articles granted I’m super ignorant when it comes to law and rely heavily on the views of others to synthesize info, and listened to a couple podcasts from Scottish people.

Trust me, bro.

When you were pressed on your understanding of the topic you posted this:

A ‘widely’ assumed understanding of a law evidenced by ‘countless’ trans activists.

This is what I actually said:

The law was ambiguous and there was a wide perception that the law would apply to misgendering as evidenced by the countless trans activists saying that exact thing before her April 1 thread and then insisting that she be charged.

I stand by that statement.

Furthermore, perhaps in all of that "research" you have been doing you may have missed this one: The Scottish Government's minister for victims and community safety publicly stated that misgendering someone could potentially lead to prosecution under the new law:

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-minister-admits-misgendering-online-32486000

An SNP minister has warned that Scots could face a criminal record if they are found to have misgendered someone online under the new hate crime laws. Siobhian Brown, who is the minister for victims and community safety, admitted that the likes of JK Rowling could be subjected to numerous police complaints if she made gender critical comments.

But concerns have been raised that this will have a "chilling" effect on free speech as complainants will be allowed to anonymously report someone online, or at one of hundreds of reporting centres across Scotland. This can include comments made on social media.

But go on and gaslight us into believing it was never a real concern and it was just a few kooks on twitter.

You've now pivoted to free speech advocacy.

How in the hell is that a pivot? The entire issue is free speech.

[falafel]

How in the hell is that a pivot? The entire issue is free speech.

Massive flip-flop from JL on this one. Not that long ago he was 100% for state-sponsored censorship of dissenting opinion.

[tooblue]

As the only individual here who actually lives in a country (common wealth) where similar legislation (Bill C-63) is being put in place, and as a post secondary professor who interacts daily with a variety of LGBTQ2S+ individuals, and as someone who sleeps in the same bed with a psychotherapist I can sincerely state that the Scottish legislation is frightening. Chilling. Reprehensible.

[fusnik]

As the only individual here who actually lives in a country (common wealth) where similar legislation (Bill C-63) is being put in place, and as a post secondary professor who interacts daily with a variety of LGBTQ2S+ individuals, and as someone who sleeps in the same bed with a psychotherapist I can sincerely state that the Scottish legislation is frightening. Chilling. Reprehensible.

So scary!

Wait til you hear that the law passed in Scotland also included religious persecution.

Im sure folks calling Muslim’s, Sikhs, are in real danger of being thrown to the gulags.

[fusnik]

Trust me, bro.



This is what I actually said:



I stand by that statement.

Furthermore, perhaps in all of that "research" you have been doing you may have missed this one: The Scottish Government's minister for victims and community safety publicly stated that misgendering someone could potentially lead to prosecution under the new law:

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-minister-admits-misgendering-online-32486000

But go on and gaslight us into believing it was never a real concern and it was just a few kooks on twitter.



How in the hell is that a pivot? The entire issue is free speech.

Again I’ll ask about the Lady Utes.

[Copelius]

Again I’ll ask about the Lady Utes.

It would appear to me that the initial pass by the rednecks in their truck was not a violation, but I think a good prosecutor could use the second pass as a threat under the Malicious Harassment law on the books. That is up to a 5 yr prison sentence as well as a civil cause for the Lady Utes. An extremely subjective statute, that the legislature has inserted a savings clause into in the event that my analysis is incorrect.

18-7902. MALICIOUS HARASSMENT DEFINED — PROHIBITED. It shall be unlawful for any person, maliciously and with the specific intent to intimidate or harass another person because of that person’s race, color, religion, ancestry, or national origin, to:
(a) Cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) Damage, destroy, or deface any real or personal property of another person; or
(c) Threaten, by word or act, to do the acts prohibited if there is reasonable cause to believe that any of the acts described in subsections (a) and (b) of this section will occur.

The second pass can give reason to believe that there is a potential for physical injury, so long as it is more than just a drive by yelling stupid _________, or whatever. I think there has to be something more communicated to be a threat, which can be as simple as go home you _______, or get out of our town _______, etc.

[falafel]

Again I’ll ask about the Lady Utes.

The alleged crimes committed against them is covered by normal harassment laws. This has been the debate for years regarding hate speech laws.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Again I’ll ask about the Lady Utes.

From what little I know about it, it sounds awful. Sadly par for the course for that particular part of Idaho.