At what point did you / will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think Utah has been relatively reasonable - I also think they've kind of done a statewide shutdown very similar to many other state shutdowns - but just called it by another name instead of calling it a shutdown. But when you read the directive from the governor - it's pretty dang close. Yet we still have people crying that we need the governor to shut things down!

No, it is different.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/4/2/21204511/coronavirus-why-doesnt-utah-have-stay-at-home-order-covid-19-salt-lake

Gov. Gary Herbert last week directed Utahns to “stay safe, stay home,” but did not issue a statewide stay-at-home order like those set by at least 38 other states as of Thursday, according to the New York Times. Utah is among 12 states that have either no statewide orders or patchwork directives from counties that have issued their own unique orders.

Herbert’s directive has urged Utahns to voluntarily social distance and discouraged gatherings of 10 or more people, but he did not set any penalties for people who don’t obey. He’s left it up to county officials to individually decide whether they want to back the order with the force of law.

[tooblue]

I'm a little worried about supply chains and Covid-19 moves thought the essential work sector.

I know there has been an outbreak at the pork plant in South Dakota. I hear from my relatives is Alberta there are bad cases at meat processing plants in Alberta.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/cargill-alberta-covid-19-deena-hinshaw-1.5537377

I know Amazon employees have complained. I'm hoping that the meat processing business is unique and not a sign of things to come in other industries.

Yes, apparently that meat processing plant supplies one third of Canada's beef to not only McDonalds but grocery stores etc. It's frightening.

[Northwestcoug]

So now we’re learning a little as we go. When the shutdown started you and CNN had no doubts, were full of bluster.

Great. Like Trump, the change in SU’s tone was short-lived.

[tooblue]

So now we’re learning a little as we go. When the shutdown started you and CNN had no doubts, were full of bluster.

What in hades are you talking about? In an earlier post you stated we are going to learn from Sweden, after Sweden learns as it goes, but now it is not OK for someone to state the obvious ... that everyone is learning as they go, because there is no precedent to rely upon.

[Eddie]

No, it is different.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/4/...d-19-salt-lake

It hasn't been forced by "rule of law", but the basic premise of the directive are essentially the same as all but the most stringent shelter in place orders. That's all I'm saying.

The governor's directive tells people to keep 6 feet of social distancing except with people of the same household. Specifically says no play dates for kids or playgrounds. No sports. It says no travel except for "essential" travel. I get that it's different than an "order" - all I'm saying is that what the directive contains - what we've been asked to do - is essentially the equivalent of what people under stay home orders are being asked to do.

So people saying "we need a stay home order so that people don't have neighborhood parties" don't seem to get that the directive already essentially says no neighborhood parties. The difference is between it being a directive and it being an order with legal ramifications - but the "what to do" isn't all that different.

[Moliere]

We are learning as we go. We have 50 states doing things a little differently and they will be taking different paths going forward. Will be really interesting to see what we figure out.

Utah has been pretty reasonable thus far.

I don't disagree and I've said before that I"m jealous of Utah. Excess testing capacity and very low infection/death rates. Gov Abbott is a decent governor but he's been really behind the ball in Texas...but at least he's trying to get things opened again.

I think Utah has been relatively reasonable - I also think they've kind of done a statewide shutdown very similar to many other state shutdowns - but just called it by another name instead of calling it a shutdown. But when you read the directive from the governor - it's pretty dang close. Yet we still have people crying that we need the governor to shut things down!

That said - I think people's patience is about done.

My neighbor across the street has been one of the loudest of the social distancing crowd. Her facebook was initially filled with cries to stay home and stay safe while shaming anyone who doesn't comply. Her gradual move from "we need a real shutdown" to slowly doing less and less social distancing has been a sight to behold.

She made sure she had EVERYTHING she needed so that she wouldn't have to go shopping and self-isolated for the first 2-3 weeks. She's divorced and has a lot of family that lives nearby - parents a couple blocks away, a sister less than a mile away, etc. Her ex lives in the same town and has been pretty consistent taking his time with the kids. I have to give the dude credit too - she cries to him about not wanting to disrupt their schedule by sending them to church with him on his weekends - so he comes to our ward.

She was avoiding everyone to the degree that she wouldn't allow contact with any of the family, or even allow the kids to have contact with their Dad. Her ex brought a bunch of Easter stuff for them, hid eggs in their front yard, etc. Then stood by his car down the street while the kids found the eggs with gloves and masks on. Ha!

Last week her brother and his wife and one of her sisters show up and go in the house for 2-3 hours. A couple of days later I see her kids up at her parent's home. And then yesterday she's got her whole family - more than 10 of them from 4 different households - all in her backyard hanging out.

Personally, I don't care that she's having contact with her family. But I share this as an example of even the most ardent of social-distancing shelter-in-place folks getting restless and starting to push the "rules" that they once were pushing compliance for. If the government wants to open things up slowly to see what happens with positive tests, they need to start while a little bit of opening up feels like some freedom. If they wait too long, I think it's going to turn into a free-for-all.

I've also said it before that the shut down will only last so long. People will only stay isolated and not work for so long. SU is a faithless capitalist, all he has to do is have faith that the American people will take matters into their own hands and reopen the economy. We all have the same data that is available to most politicians and we all know by now that social distancing is working but that it can also work with an mostly-open economy. The protestors in Austin are fairly dumb and extreme, but they are just the beginning of many, like your neighbor, that will begin to silently protest. We, as a family, are definitely thinking about hitting the beaches next Friday. My kids have been good, but they are getting incredibly bored and they are the least at risk people in the world (young, healthy, no pre-existing conditions, etc.).

[Jeff Lebowski]

It hasn't been forced by "rule of law", but the basic premise of the directive are essentially the same as all but the most stringent shelter in place orders. That's all I'm saying.

The governor's directive tells people to keep 6 feet of social distancing except with people of the same household. Specifically says no play dates for kids or playgrounds. No sports. It says no travel except for "essential" travel. I get that it's different than an "order" - all I'm saying is that what the directive contains - what we've been asked to do - is essentially the equivalent of what people under stay home orders are being asked to do.

So people saying "we need a stay home order so that people don't have neighborhood parties" don't seem to get that the directive already essentially says no neighborhood parties. The difference is between it being a directive and it being an order with legal ramifications - but the "what to do" isn't all that different.

I guess I am not sure what your beef is. Utahns have been asked to voluntarily do certain things and most have complied. In terms of cases, deaths, testing, etc. Utah is doing really well and on a trajectory to gradually open things up.

[SeattleUte]

What in hades are you talking about? In an earlier post you stated we are going to learn from Sweden, after Sweden learns as it goes, but now it is not OK for someone to state the obvious ... that everyone is learning as the go, because there is no precedent to rely upon.

I agree with what you say here, not with your previous certitude and bullying.

[tooblue]

I agree with what you say here, not with your previous certitude and bullying.

Evidence is nothing more than evidence.

[Northwestcoug]

"What have you got to lose?"

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/04/21/more-deaths-no-benefit-malaria-drug-va-virus-study.html

[Eddie]

I guess I am not sure what your beef is. Utahns have been asked to voluntarily do certain things and most have complied. In terms of cases, deaths, testing, etc. Utah is doing really well and on a trajectory to gradually open things up.

I don't have a beef. I think Utah has done extremely well as far as illness is concerned, and I feel like the social distancing precautions taken have been relatively reasonable. I like the governor's approach of directive and not "shelter in place" and feel like it's been pretty effective.

Actually - if I DO have a beef, it's with the people saying that Utah is one of x number of states who haven't shut down yet, when as I said earlier, they've essentially done the same things that states that are shutting down are doing. And if I have a beef it's with the people who are saying that without having any real idea of what the governor's directive actually says - since it covers all of the stuff that they are complaining about Utah not doing.

Like you - I like that it's been directive instead of order. I like that most Utahns have been pretty compliant. I like that they've taken the approach of educating rather than applying legal consequences if they think someone is out of line.

[wapiti]

I don't have a beef. I think Utah has done extremely well as far as illness is concerned, and I feel like the social distancing precautions taken have been relatively reasonable. I like the governor's approach of directive and not "shelter in place" and feel like it's been pretty effective.

Actually - if I DO have a beef, it's with the people saying that Utah is one of x number of states who haven't shut down yet, when as I said earlier, they've essentially done the same things that states that are shutting down are doing. And if I have a beef it's with the people who are saying that without having any real idea of what the governor's directive actually says - since it covers all of the stuff that they are complaining about Utah not doing.

Like you - I like that it's been directive instead of order. I like that most Utahns have been pretty compliant. I like that they've taken the approach of educating rather than applying legal consequences if they think someone is out of line.

Utah has a lot of stores and businesses open that are closed in other states. Sporting goods stores, craft stores, warehouses supplying "non-essential" goods are all open in Utah but have been shutdown in much of the country.

[SeattleUte]

There may not be a vaccine.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/will-there-be-a-coronavirus-vaccine-maybe-not.html

[Walter Sobchak]

God bless New Yorkers...

De Blasio’s social distancing tip line flooded with penis photos

Mayor Bill de Blasio’s critics let him know how they really felt about him ordering New Yorkers to snitch on each other for violating social-distancing rules — by flooding his new tip line with crank complaints including “dick pics” and people flipping the bird, The Post has learned.

[Northwestcoug]

Well that was quick:

A panel of experts convened by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases recommends against doctors using a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of COVID-19 patients because of potential toxicities.

"The combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was associated with QTc prolongation in patients with COVID-19," the panel said.

QTc prolongation increases the risk of sudden cardiac death.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/21/840341224/nih-panel-recommends-against-drug-combination-trump-has-promoted-for-covid-19

Ah, memories:

Embedded Tweet

Many of us were skeptical from the beginning. That doesn't mean we weren't hopeful for potential efficacy. Just in case any of you judge my rabid anti-Trump bias is clouding my opinion here.