War with Iran - DEFCON 3

[dabrockster]

The fact that Trump can openly brag about acing a dementia tests multiple times, and essentially half the country yawns, is a damning indictment of our political system.

And you know what Dabrockster, two things can be true. It’s also a damning indictment that a small cabal tried to hide similar mental declines from the country with Biden. And those meddling kids might have gotten away with it were it not for a disastrous debate.

Yes it is.. No argument from me there. We are a country that is driven by political parties and all the money that is pushed to elevate certain politicians. The past 8-years and now this 4 is a true indictment of that..

[dabrockster]

Literally one of the biggest dipshits that has ever ascended to power so it's hard to tell what's new decline and what's baseline dumbassery. How you can listen to him speak and think "he's there" is wild. Listening to him brag about "acing" the MoCA should be all anyone ever needed to hear.

Yet, Biden stonewalled and his staff the entire time in taking the test. Or the results. Just allowed his Dr. to claim he was fit.

The irony of all this is humorous when the table has flipped.

[wally]

If this peace deal actually goes through... I am gonna be waiting for some solid entertainment from lefties who are conflicted about the fact that they have been demanding Trump 'stop it' then when he does, need to nitpick the terms to death. Also, Trump is gonna post the most obnoxious and over-the-top posts about deserving a Nobel peace prize or some other garbage to really amp things up afterward as well. And when he does it will 100% be used to declare his 'dementia' by the Democrats. This is gonna be so fun to watch!!!

On a serious note, I am resigning myself to the possible fact that if we want to deter Iran from developing a nuke, we may have to bomb them up every so often to set them back. I don't think that Iran will ever stop trying to get a nuke, because they will see it as a deterrent to what just happened. On the flip side.... I think that we can all agree that unless Iran's leadership and government radically change, the international community REALLY cannot afford to see them have a nuke. (I would hope that Iran's allies can see this as well) We don't need a more competent 'North Korea' smack-dab in the middle of the Middle East.

[happyone]

agreed

[frank ryan]

If this peace deal actually goes through... I am gonna be waiting for some solid entertainment from lefties who are conflicted about the fact that they have been demanding Trump 'stop it' then when he does, need to nitpick the terms to death. Also, Trump is gonna post the most obnoxious and over-the-top posts about deserving a Nobel peace prize or some other garbage to really amp things up afterward as well. And when he does it will 100% be used to declare his 'dementia' by the Democrats. This is gonna be so fun to watch!!!

On a serious note, I am resigning myself to the possible fact that if we want to deter Iran from developing a nuke, we may have to bomb them up every so often to set them back. I don't think that Iran will ever stop trying to get a nuke, because they will see it as a deterrent to what just happened. On the flip side.... I think that we can all agree that unless Iran's leadership and government radically change, the international community REALLY cannot afford to see them have a nuke. (I would hope that Iran's allies can see this as well) We don't need a more competent 'North Korea' smack-dab in the middle of the Middle East.

lol, knock it off. He started a dumb war he didn't need to and is getting us a worse deal than the Obama's admin worked out. This conflict didn't achieve anything and Iran has more motivation to get a nuke and war plan with other aggressive means. It's also served to entrench the hardliners in Iran more.

His decline is real. Certainly lame to gatekeep and ridicule concerns about the 80 y/os behaviors and actions. I think it's foolish to make some case that he is at the top of his game.

You really have to round up to see this as a positive that deserves celebration.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Are we really paying Iran $300B?

Lol, what a disaster.

[Shaka]

If this peace deal actually goes through... I am gonna be waiting for some solid entertainment from lefties who are conflicted about the fact that they have been demanding Trump 'stop it' then when he does, need to nitpick the terms to death. Also, Trump is gonna post the most obnoxious and over-the-top posts about deserving a Nobel peace prize or some other garbage to really amp things up afterward as well. And when he does it will 100% be used to declare his 'dementia' by the Democrats. This is gonna be so fun to watch!!!

On a serious note, I am resigning myself to the possible fact that if we want to deter Iran from developing a nuke, we may have to bomb them up every so often to set them back. I don't think that Iran will ever stop trying to get a nuke, because they will see it as a deterrent to what just happened. On the flip side.... I think that we can all agree that unless Iran's leadership and government radically change, the international community REALLY cannot afford to see them have a nuke. (I would hope that Iran's allies can see this as well) We don't need a more competent 'North Korea' smack-dab in the middle of the Middle East.

We should name the Kennedy Center after him.

[wally]

Are we really paying Iran $300B?

Lol, what a disaster.

If we are paying it upfront, then that is really dumb. If there are reciprocal measures then that would be better.

[wally]

lol, knock it off. He started a dumb war he didn't need to and is getting us a worse deal than the Obama's admin worked out. This conflict didn't achieve anything and Iran has more motivation to get a nuke and war plan with other aggressive means. It's also served to entrench the hardliners in Iran more.

His decline is real. Certainly lame to gatekeep and ridicule concerns about the 80 y/os behaviors and actions. I think it's foolish to make some case that he is at the top of his game.

You really have to round up to see this as a positive that deserves celebration.

What should the US have done to prevent Iran from developing an ICBM? I am not necessarily defending Trump here, but honestly am interested in what the options really are when all other peaceful measures are summarily ignored by Iran?

I never made a case for trump being 'at the top of his game.' I am sure he is not. I am merely stocking up on popcorn for the drama that will ensue and where the critics will pivot to criticize. Hell, I am all for removing Trump from office and letting 'President Vance' start making some decisions, lol! My comment was more toward my ill-derived entertainment from all of this very sad political theatre.

The fact that Trump critics are leaning so hard into Trumps fitness for office in the wake of hypocritically defending Biden in the exact same situation, only reinforces my hypothesis that in politics, you only need to wait for the 'other side' to be in power to experience the receiving end of the tactic that you invented to use on them. Trump in my mind, is merely an accelerant in the dumpster fire. I find it interesting that both on the extreme left and extreme right, folks are really enamored with the concept of re-education camps, lol!

[frank ryan]

What should the US have done to prevent Iran from developing an ICBM? I am not necessarily defending Trump here, but honestly am interested in what the options really are when all other peaceful measures are summarily ignored by Iran?

I never made a case for trump being 'at the top of his game.' I am sure he is not. I am merely stocking up on popcorn for the drama that will ensue and where the critics will pivot to criticize. Hell, I am all for removing Trump from office and letting 'President Vance' start making some decisions, lol! My comment was more toward my ill-derived entertainment from all of this very sad political theatre.

The fact that Trump critics are leaning so hard into Trumps fitness for office in the wake of hypocritically defending Biden in the exact same situation, only reinforces my hypothesis that in politics, you only need to wait for the 'other side' to be in power to experience the receiving end of the tactic that you invented to use on them. Trump in my mind, is merely an accelerant in the dumpster fire. I find it interesting that both on the extreme left and extreme right, folks are really enamored with the concept of re-education camps, lol!

Do you realize I acknowledged I was wrong to defend Biden as much as I did? I blame his wife and his circle for protecting him.
What's hypocritical is reflexively dismissing information that merits concern with regard to Trump, because democrats didn't do more to sideline Biden. Concerns about Trump's decline are real regardless of Biden. You may not believe my sincerity but whatever.

Trump is also benefiting from a post-cancellation right wing culture. Everything must be unfair, must be a witch-hunt etc. No one of note in the GOP genuinely challenges him.

Every time the man speaks or posts he is blaming someone for something.

I think our core differences don't lie in this left/right stuff. You won't believe that though because you've inaccurately pigeon-holed as being some DNC foot soldier. I'm liberal and on a lot of issues, progressive but I'm not a leftist. Some of my biggest concerns with Trump are closer to actual conservatism than anything else. Free trade, national defense and security etc.


This administration is wildly concerning because it's historically awful. We have never had other administrations from either party do the things MAGA is.

We haven't had anyone as destructive to the country occupying the office until now.

What should the US have done with Iran? Surely you don't think this war was a success. A lot of what should have happened with Iran lay with Israel. Bibi has every admin, dem or GOP to go after Iran. No one jumped on that until now. The deal negotiated under Obama was a better one and better example. That was a better direction. I don't think this administration, even if willing could've negotiated it though. The frittered away our softpower. Vance, Rubio etc haven't shown muster as diplomats.

I thought Trump was the no new wars guy. Instead he is a warmonger. Renaming the department of defense into the department of war is an indicator on its own.

[wally]

What should the US have done with Iran? Surely you don't think this war was a success. A lot of what should have happened with Iran lay with Israel. Bibi has every admin, dem or GOP to go after Iran. No one jumped on that until now. The deal negotiated under Obama was a better one and better example. That was a better direction. I don't think this administration, even if willing could've negotiated it though. The frittered away our softpower. Vance, Rubio etc haven't shown muster as diplomats.

I guess my assumption (probably wrong, but then again this is likely unprovable) is that we have been trying to negotiate with Iran on nuclear capability for a long time and they have been smiling and nodding for a long time, all the while ignoring the international community and doing their own thing in secret. I would much rather negotiate, but I am presently at the point where I think that whether it was Biden, Trump, Kamala or Gavin Newsom, one of our presidents was going to face the decision whether to respond with force regarding Iran pushing for Nuclear weapons. I actually would have preferred it not been Trump for many of the reasons that you have articulated, and especially because I would have preferred to only engage with more support from the international community, but I do think that this conflict was coming one way or another.

Do you think that diplomacy would have ever been effective, absent your concerns with the Trump admin?

[frank ryan]

I guess my assumption (probably wrong, but then again this is likely unprovable) is that we have been trying to negotiate with Iran on nuclear capability for a long time and they have been smiling and nodding for a long time, all the while ignoring the international community and doing their own thing in secret. I would much rather negotiate, but I am presently at the point where I think that whether it was Biden, Trump, Kamala or Gavin Newsom, one of our presidents was going to face the decision whether to respond with force regarding Iran pushing for Nuclear weapons. I actually would have preferred it not been Trump for many of the reasons that you have articulated, and especially because I would have preferred to only engage with more support from the international community, but I do think that this conflict was coming one way or another.

Do you think that diplomacy would have ever been effective, absent your concerns with the Trump admin?

I think the diplomacy was promising and this was not just based on American perspectives but European partners as well. When Trump came into his first term he gave Iran the middle finger and tore up the agreement. Maybe Tillerson tried, but I don't think there was much genuine engagement. Why should we have engaged in war when we didn't do this with North Korea? The other rogue nuclear power.

I don't read this paper much but here is a Jerusalem Post article sharing the though of an ex-Netanyahu advisor suggesting Trump's deal is worse.

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/ir...article-899351

[dabrockster]

Are we really paying Iran $300B?

Lol, what a disaster.

Is that real?? Vance’s tiptoeing around the question.

[falafel]

We started a war that we lost - every conceivable metric shows that we are worse off than we were before. What an unmitigated disaster. Remember the Benghazi debacle? This makes that look like a Tupperware party. This administration has no idea what its doing and is actively making my life worse. In World Cup parlance, talk about an own goal.

[falafel]

What should the US have done to prevent Iran from developing an ICBM? I am not necessarily defending Trump here, but honestly am interested in what the options really are when all other peaceful measures are summarily ignored by Iran?

I never made a case for trump being 'at the top of his game.' I am sure he is not. I am merely stocking up on popcorn for the drama that will ensue and where the critics will pivot to criticize. Hell, I am all for removing Trump from office and letting 'President Vance' start making some decisions, lol! My comment was more toward my ill-derived entertainment from all of this very sad political theatre.

The fact that Trump critics are leaning so hard into Trumps fitness for office in the wake of hypocritically defending Biden in the exact same situation, only reinforces my hypothesis that in politics, you only need to wait for the 'other side' to be in power to experience the receiving end of the tactic that you invented to use on them. Trump in my mind, is merely an accelerant in the dumpster fire. I find it interesting that both on the extreme left and extreme right, folks are really enamored with the concept of re-education camps, lol!

Uh, you kind sound like you are making a case for Trump. You are asking for alternatives from the group, which suggests that you support the current narrative unless someone else can disprove it. And your "stocking up on popcorn" remark seems pretty callused. Is this really entertainment for you? I get that you enjoy being a loveable foil to the people taking this stuff seriously, but really what is the point? Taking pot shots from the cheap seats can only go so far. Are you interested in this topic, or are you just interested in poking fun at others without getting your hands dirty?

If you thought Biden was unfit for office (and called others hypocrites for supporting him), how can you possibly argue that Trump is fit? I am guessing you will respond with something like "I said I was all for removing Trump from office and letting 'President Vance' start making some decisions, lol!", but that is a meaningless statement because you know it won't happen. A very safe position to take. Also, WTF are you talking about re: reeducation camps?? No one is advocating for reeducation camps.

Wally, shed the "I'm just asking questions and poking fun" persona and get serious, or just GFTO of this conversation. And no need for any folksy retorts without any substance - those aren't helpful either. It is super easy to poke holes in other's arguments without proposing anything meaningful in response.