War with Iran - DEFCON 3

[falafel]

Do you think that diplomacy would have ever been effective, absent your concerns with the Trump admin?

It was effective, and resulted in the JCPOA. Which Trump tore up, only to "negotiate" a much worse deal. All because he couldn't admit that Obama did something decent.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Art of the Deal!

Oy vey. (we need a clown emoji)

Embedded Tweet

[Jeff Lebowski]

Embedded Tweet

[Donuthole]

Hey Claude, write me a cease-fire contract between the US and Iran to symbolize the end of the war in Iran. Make it long enough to seem like it's a legitimate agreement between countries, but not so long that President Trump will lose attention before the entire thing is read and explained to him. Because Iran actually won't agree to anything, whenever there is something that the US wants, use the language "Iran will use its best efforts to . . " and then insert the thing the US wants but Iran doesn't want. Whenever it is something Iran wants but the US does not want use "US will work toward" or "the US will develop" before the thing that Iran doesn't want.

[frank ryan]

I remember all the screaming about Iran receiving loads of cash by plane from the US. I'm sure there will be consistency with how outraged conservatives are at this one.

[Donuthole]

The memorandum doesn't even require Iran to not advance its development of nuclear capabilities over the next 60 days. Just requires status quo for Iran, while the US must not impose any new sanctions. Lol.

[Northwestcoug]

Ah, memories:

IMG_0557.jpeg

[frank ryan]

Ah, memories:

IMG_0557.jpeg

I'm think we are at that spot in our history where we assume we don't need allies.


Also more stuff keeps coming with regard to Epstein and Trump. Let's just keep ignoring it.

[wally]

Uh, you kind sound like you are making a case for Trump. You are asking for alternatives from the group, which suggests that you support the current narrative unless someone else can disprove it. And your "stocking up on popcorn" remark seems pretty callused. Is this really entertainment for you? I get that you enjoy being a loveable foil to the people taking this stuff seriously, but really what is the point? Taking pot shots from the cheap seats can only go so far. Are you interested in this topic, or are you just interested in poking fun at others without getting your hands dirty?

If you thought Biden was unfit for office (and called others hypocrites for supporting him), how can you possibly argue that Trump is fit? I am guessing you will respond with something like "I said I was all for removing Trump from office and letting 'President Vance' start making some decisions, lol!", but that is a meaningless statement because you know it won't happen. A very safe position to take. Also, WTF are you talking about re: reeducation camps?? No one is advocating for reeducation camps.

Wally, shed the "I'm just asking questions and poking fun" persona and get serious, or just GFTO of this conversation. And no need for any folksy retorts without any substance - those aren't helpful either. It is super easy to poke holes in other's arguments without proposing anything meaningful in response.

Are you for real here? This whole thread is mostly just reposting tweets, and although I really like a funny political tweet as much as the next guy, the notion that you are defending the integrity of this political thread and that I am not "taking this stuff seriously" is ...... kinda funny to me also.

Moreover, what the hell is someone to do about any of this shit? I vote every 4 years just like you, I assume. I never voted for Trump, and I never liked what MAGA ultimately stood for. As much as I dislike his persona and a lot of the things he does, I am determined, as an American, to give Trump, as our duly-elected President, some modicum of the benefit of the doubt. Why am I that stupid?: Well because I really, really, believe in the American SYSTEM. and the more we proceed to undermine it, regardless if it is a "worthy cause" such as opposing Trump, the more it destabilizes the very delicate fabric of the system I believe in, as we end up in a situation where civil-disobedience is conducted in an escalating fashion until we are at civil war with each other. This is my "why", LOL!

Also Re: "reeducation camps" -- have you ever called MAGA supporters a Cult? or Cult-like? Do you think they need, as Hilary termed it: "deprogramming?" Should we actively limit free speech based on what one side of the political aisle thinks is dangerous? I don't know if you have noticed it or not, but the rhetoric is getting sharper and more polarizing, and as much as I believe Trump is a part of that, I think the bigger part pre-existed Trump and he simply "carpetbagged" on the opportunity. We have been polarizing in the nation for some time, I think we are just reaching a point where the rug is no longer big enough to sweep it underneath.

Finally: so help me, if I go and start "taking things here seriously here" to get your endorsement, only so YOU then turn around and joke about something without MY permission, IM GONNA BE PISSED.

[wally]

It was effective, and resulted in the JCPOA. Which Trump tore up, only to "negotiate" a much worse deal. All because he couldn't admit that Obama did something decent.

Can you articulate to me why the JCPOA was even necessary in addition to the Nonproliferation Treaty to which Iran was already a party?

I will concede that Iran did abide by the JCPOA for the full 2 years it was in force as a non-binding, non-treaty, political agreement. Why didn't the international community do something more durable than the JCPOA, such as to withstand the fickle nature of American politics?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Are you for real here? This whole thread is mostly just reposting tweets, and although I really like a funny political tweet as much as the next guy, the notion that you are defending the integrity of this political thread and that I am not "taking this stuff seriously" is ...... kinda funny to me also.

Moreover, what the hell is someone to do about any of this shit? I vote every 4 years just like you, I assume. I never voted for Trump, and I never liked what MAGA ultimately stood for. As much as I dislike his persona and a lot of the things he does, I am determined, as an American, to give Trump, as our duly-elected President, some modicum of the benefit of the doubt. Why am I that stupid?: Well because I really, really, believe in the American SYSTEM. and the more we proceed to undermine it, regardless if it is a "worthy cause" such as opposing Trump, the more it destabilizes the very delicate fabric of the system I believe in, as we end up in a situation where civil-disobedience is conducted in an escalating fashion until we are at civil war with each other. This is my "why", LOL!

Also Re: "reeducation camps" -- have you ever called MAGA supporters a Cult? or Cult-like? Do you think they need, as Hilary termed it: "deprogramming?" Should we actively limit free speech based on what one side of the political aisle thinks is dangerous? I don't know if you have noticed it or not, but the rhetoric is getting sharper and more polarizing, and as much as I believe Trump is a part of that, I think the bigger part pre-existed Trump and he simply "carpetbagged" on the opportunity. We have been polarizing in the nation for some time, I think we are just reaching a point where the rug is no longer big enough to sweep it underneath.

Finally: so help me, if I go and start "taking things here seriously here" to get your endorsement, only so YOU then turn around and joke about something without MY permission, IM GONNA BE PISSED.

Ha. Falafel can be a little intense (bless his heart). You be you, buddy.

[falafel]

Can you articulate to me why the JCPOA was even necessary in addition to the Nonproliferation Treaty to which Iran was already a party?

I will concede that Iran did abide by the JCPOA for the full 2 years it was in force as a non-binding, non-treaty, political agreement. Why didn't the international community do something more durable than the JCPOA, such as to withstand the fickle nature of American politics?

Ha! You kill me Wally. It is, and always has been, the eyebrows.

[SteelBlue]

Popped by Foxnews to see how they were coping with the shitty deal. Giant headline is "Minority firms face financial ruin after building Obama Presidential Center."

[falafel]

Are you for real here? This whole thread is mostly just reposting tweets, and although I really like a funny political tweet as much as the next guy, the notion that you are defending the integrity of this political thread and that I am not "taking this stuff seriously" is ...... kinda funny to me also.

Yeah... sorry.

Moreover, what the hell is someone to do about any of this shit? I vote every 4 years just like you, I assume. I never voted for Trump, and I never liked what MAGA ultimately stood for. As much as I dislike his persona and a lot of the things he does, I am determined, as an American, to give Trump, as our duly-elected President, some modicum of the benefit of the doubt. Why am I that stupid?: Well because I really, really, believe in the American SYSTEM. and the more we proceed to undermine it, regardless if it is a "worthy cause" such as opposing Trump, the more it destabilizes the very delicate fabric of the system I believe in, as we end up in a situation where civil-disobedience is conducted in an escalating fashion until we are at civil war with each other. This is my "why", LOL!

We are doing what we are supposed to be doing - having a public discourse, exchange of ideas, etc. And then we vote. But if you believe your participation is limited to once every 4 years, well, it seems like you are not exactly "taking it seriously."

Additionally, funny that you call out my comments as undermining the system, when Trump has done nothing by systematically undermine the system. But you are probably right, my comments on this chat board are likely the biggest culprit.

Also Re: "reeducation camps" -- have you ever called MAGA supporters a Cult? or Cult-like? Do you think they need, as Hilary termed it: "deprogramming?" Should we actively limit free speech based on what one side of the political aisle thinks is dangerous? I don't know if you have noticed it or not, but the rhetoric is getting sharper and more polarizing, and as much as I believe Trump is a part of that, I think the bigger part pre-existed Trump and he simply "carpetbagged" on the opportunity. We have been polarizing in the nation for some time, I think we are just reaching a point where the rug is no longer big enough to sweep it underneath.

No, we should not. And yes, I have noticed the escalation in rhetoric. How could anyone not? And, as you say, it is not good to actively limit free speech based on political party. That may, in fact, be the whole point. I understand that political rhetoric in this country has always been sharp, but I strongly disagree that Trump's behavior is just the cherry on top. He's not just the "latest" to use such rhetoric, he has increased it exponentially. The fact that you don't acknowledge that is troubling for your argument.

Finally: so help me, if I go and start "taking things here seriously here" to get your endorsement, only so YOU then turn around and joke about something without MY permission, IM GONNA BE PISSED.

Just let me know what you find something on this board that should be taken seriously so I can be sure where the line is and how best to trample it! TIA.

[wally]

but I strongly disagree that Trump's behavior is just the cherry on top. He's not just the "latest" to use such rhetoric, he has increased it exponentially. The fact that you don't acknowledge that is troubling for your argument.

For you, falafel, but only for you: "I hereby acknowledge that Trumps rehetoric is often troubling and bad." I hope this helps you feel a little better about things.

As far as Trump rhetoric being "exponentially" worse, I suppose that would be correct based on only your or my personal experience (assume we are similar in age.) I think that there has been pretty nasty rhetoric historically, and that really the biggest factor is that for our cognizance, our formative years occurred after perhaps the best period in the US for impartial and professional journalism to keep politicians in check.