War with Iran - DEFCON 3

[Jeff Lebowski]

David Brooks of the New York Times nails it. Trump's triumph is that he has made the Democrats stupid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/o...core-ios-share

Brooks is awesome.

Yes, he is. He came to BYU in October!

[frank ryan]

Brooks is awesome.



Legit assessment. Talent does not grow on trees. We are better off that this guy is no longer pulling strings across the region.



Trump is a lot of things, but he's not a warmongering idiot. He's very timid when it comes to foreign entanglements. I was surprised that he authorized the Soleimani action.

One major source of disappointment for me concerning Obama was his fecklessness when it came to using force. He didn't retaliate against Syria for chemical weapons and he didn't punish Russia for attacking our elections. Trump has also been largely pathetic. His attack on Syria was a coordinated symbol token attack where we bombed a half dozen already broken planes. That said, I think assassinating Soleimani was the wrong move. Iran deserved to get some response from us, but that one represented a serious escalation of hostilities. I'm glad Soleimani's dead, but it's too early to assess its impact. He presents an opportunity to serve Iran as a martyr, and unifying figure. I hope his death does leave the Quds Force in disarray, but we can't bank on it.

[Green Monstah]

I was talking with a friend who served several tours in Afghanistan and Iraq about war with Iran earlier in the week. He mentioned that the only thing Iran has militarily that is impressive is anti aircraft system. The Israeli Air Force is know for flying under the radar and knocking the Whit out of their enemies, so the Iranians have their AAA on a hair trigger. The next day, he texted and said “Buddy at Langley says the Iranians accidentally took down the Ukrainian plane.”

[myboynoah]

Yes, he is. He came to BYU in October!

Brooks is awesome.

[Walter Sobchak]

David Brooks must be very proud. The Iraq War he pushed so hard for is old enough to drive.

In a just world, David Brooks would be stripped of his nationally syndicated megaphone and shipped to Iraq and unceremoniously dumped. But, of course, that will not happen... because too many dimwits (that should know better) still believe that "Brooks is awesome".

[SeattleUte]

David Brooks must be very proud. The Iraq War he pushed so hard for is old enough to drive.

In a just world, David Brooks would be stripped of his nationally syndicated megaphone and shipped to Iraq and unceremoniously dumped. But, of course, that will not happen... because too many dimwits (that should know better) still believe that "Brooks is awesome".

Actually, apparently we're now seeing a collateral benefit of the Iraq war--its deterrent effect had to be part of what caused Iranian to stand down. Iran's leaders know that if they escalated, they'd wind up dead in a matter of weeks. The Iraq war went bad in the nation-building part. The war itself was an astounding success.

[Bo Diddley]

Actually, apparently we're now seeing a collateral benefit of the Iraq war--its deterrent effect had to be part of what caused Iranian to stand down. Iran's leaders know that if they escalated, they'd wind up dead in a matter of weeks. The Iraq war went bad in the nation-building part. The war itself was an astounding success.

I hope so. Time will tell. I'd hate to think my time over there and the lives lost were a complete waste.

[LVAllen]

Trump is a lot of things, but he's not a warmongering idiot.

Citation frigging needed.

[imanihonjin]

One major source of disappointment for me concerning Obama was his fecklessness when it came to using force. He didn't retaliate against Syria for chemical weapons and he didn't punish Russia for attacking our elections. Trump has also been largely pathetic. His attack on Syria was a coordinated symbol token attack where we bombed a half dozen already broken planes. That said, I think assassinating Soleimani was the wrong move. Iran deserved to get some response from us, but that one represented a serious escalation of hostilities. I'm glad Soleimani's dead, but it's too early to assess its impact. He presents an opportunity to serve Iran as a martyr, and unifying figure. I hope his death does leave the Quds Force in disarray, but we can't bank on it.

You wanted Obama to use force because of Russian twitter bots?

[SeattleUte]

Citation frigging needed.

If you've not been in a coma you should know that Trump is the first president since Jimmy Carter not to have gotten into a shooting war, like Brooks says. Obama got into a shooting war in Libya and gratuitously killed Gadaffi--without Congress authority--and the democrats were fine with it. Trump is if anything too shy of military conflict and isolationist.

A lot of us are getting super tired of the hypocrisy and Trump Derangement Syndrome. We'll not get rid of Trump this way.

[myboynoah]

If you've not been in a coma you should know that Trump is the first president since Jimmy Carter not to have gotten into a shooting war, like Brooks says. Obama got into a shooting war in Libya and gratuitously killed Gadaffi--without Congress authority--and the democrats were fine with it. Trump is if anything too shy of military conflict and isolationist.

A lot of us are getting super tired of the hypocrisy and Trump Derangement Syndrome. We'll not get rid of Trump this way.

Yeah, he can be bellicose and bombastic, but he's pretty much a paper tiger. This should give some relief to those that don't like foreign military action. At the same time, no doubt those he likes to threaten now see that there is no "there" there. He prefers weilding the economic baseball bat.

As noted, the Soleimani action surprised me.

[imanihonjin]

One major source of disappointment for me concerning Obama was his fecklessness when it came to using force. He didn't retaliate against Syria for chemical weapons and he didn't punish Russia for attacking our elections. Trump has also been largely pathetic. His attack on Syria was a coordinated symbol token attack where we bombed a half dozen already broken planes. That said, I think assassinating Soleimani was the wrong move. Iran deserved to get some response from us, but that one represented a serious escalation of hostilities. I'm glad Soleimani's dead, but it's too early to assess its impact. He presents an opportunity to serve Iran as a martyr, and unifying figure. I hope his death does leave the Quds Force in disarray, but we can't bank on it.

You wanted Obama to use force because of Russian twitter bots?

[Walter Sobchak]

Actually, apparently we're now seeing a collateral benefit of the Iraq war--its deterrent effect had to be part of what caused Iranian to stand down. Iran's leaders know that if they escalated, they'd wind up dead in a matter of weeks. The Iraq war went bad in the nation-building part. The war itself was an astounding success.

Other than ...the trillions wasted, ... the thousands of US lives lost, permanently maimed and disfigured, ... the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed, injured, or displaced ...the creation of ISIS, ...the nation’s moral standing compromised by its resort to torture, ... it was an astounding success.

Ladies and gentlemen, SeattleUte.

[Topper]

Other than ...the trillions wasted, ... the thousands of US lives lost, permanently maimed and disfigured, ... the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed, injured, or displaced ...the creation of ISIS, ...the nation’s moral standing compromised by its resort to torture, ... it was an astounding success.

Ladies and gentlemen, SeattleUte.

The accounting portion of this is bullshit.

Whenever I see this accounted for, we always include the labor for which we would be paying for any way, and we pay for all maintenance of existing equipment.

I'll use an analogy that is smaller but similar. We often see newspaper claiming how much a trial cost the public. Invariably, we see the judge's and court personnel's salaries included, the cost of the building and everything else. News flash, those people would be paid even if there were no trial. There's no increase to attribute to the trial.

Yes bullets and bombs cost but not trillions.

[SeattleUte]

Other than ...the trillions wasted, ... the thousands of US lives lost, permanently maimed and disfigured, ... the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed, injured, or displaced ...the creation of ISIS, ...the nation’s moral standing compromised by its resort to torture, ... it was an astounding success.

Ladies and gentlemen, SeattleUte.

It makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way. War is God.