War with Iran - DEFCON 3

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  • Walter Sobchak
    Adventurer
    • Oct 2009
    • 3815

    #136
    Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
    It makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way. War is God.
    I agree that the US worships war and US culture fetishizes war (Mormons in particular... half the BoM is devoted to war). It doesn't have to be that way, and you know it.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
    Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

    Comment

    • SeattleUte
      Faith crisis consultant
      • Nov 2008
      • 20837

      #137
      Originally posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
      I agree that the US worships war and US culture fetishizes war (Mormons in particular... half the BoM is devoted to war). It doesn't have to be that way, and you know it.
      Faith crisis? Time to have lunch again.
      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

      --Jonathan Swift

      Comment

      • Uncle Ted
        The Big 12 money shot.
        • Apr 2010
        • 28853

        #138
        Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
        It makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way. War is God.
        Besides, major wars are good for economic growth... Didn't WWII get us out of the great depression?

        The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth
        [...]
        Counterintuitive though it may sound, the greater peacefulness of the world may make the attainment of higher rates of economic growth less urgent and thus less likely. This view does not claim that fighting wars improves economies, as of course the actual conflict brings death and destruction. The claim is also distinct from the Keynesian argument that preparing for war lifts government spending and puts people to work. Rather, the very possibility of war focuses the attention of governments on getting some basic decisions right — whether investing in science or simply liberalizing the economy. Such focus ends up improving a nation’s longer-run prospects.
        [...]
        https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/u...ic-growth.html

        Walter likes to dwell too much on the negative only.
        Last edited by Uncle Ted; 01-11-2020, 06:39 AM.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment

        • Sullyute
          a day late/a dollar short
          • Jul 2010
          • 3308

          #139
          Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
          It makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way. War is God.
          That is beautiful. Nihilistic, but beautiful.
          "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

          Comment

          • Bo Diddley
            Senior
            • Jul 2012
            • 18826

            #140
            Iran finally admits it was them. It was because of "human error and US adventurism".

            Comment

            • frank ryan
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 12397

              #141
              Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
              That is beautiful. Nihilistic, but beautiful.
              Those are Cormac McCarthy's words. From Blood Meridian. SU forgot the citation.

              Comment

              • PaloAltoCougar
                Semper infra dignitatem
                • Nov 2008
                • 16941

                #142
                Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                Those are Cormac McCarthy's words. From Blood Meridian. SU forgot the citation.
                SU is kind of a judge around these parts, so he doesn't really need to cite himself.

                Comment

                • frank ryan
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 12397

                  #143
                  Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post
                  Iran finally admits it was them. It was because of "human error and US adventurism".
                  I'm actually really surprised they admitted this. That's better behavior than the world got from the Russians.

                  Here's an interesting article that shares some details what went on diplomatically during the hostile actions.

                  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/11/u...ran-trump.html

                  The operation that took out General Suleimani, the commander of the Quds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, propelled the United States to the precipice of war with Iran and plunged the world into seven days of roiling uncertainty. The story of those seven days, and the secret planning in the months preceding them, ranks as the most perilous chapter so far in President Trump’s three years in office after his decision to launch an audacious strike on Iran, and his attempt through allies and a back channel to keep the ensuing crisis from mushrooming out of control.

                  The president’s decision to ratchet up decades of simmering conflict with Iran set off an extraordinary worldwide drama, much of which played out behind the scenes. In capitals from Europe to the Middle East, leaders and diplomats sought to head off a full-fledged new war while at the White House and Pentagon, the president and his advisers ordered more troops to the region.

                  Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler was so alarmed he dispatched his brother to Washington for a clandestine meeting with Mr. Trump. European leaders, incensed at being kept in the dark, scrambled to keep Iran from escalating. If it did, Americans developed plans to strike a command-and-control ship and conduct a cyberattack to partly disable Iran’s oil and gas sector.

                  But the United States also sent secret messages through Swiss intermediaries urging Iran not to respond so forcefully that Mr. Trump would feel compelled to go even further. After it did respond, firing 16 missiles at bases housing American troops without hurting anyone as a relatively harmless show of force, a message came back through the Swiss saying that would be the end of its reprisal for now. The message, forwarded to Washington within five minutes after it was received, persuaded the president to stand down.
                  Last edited by frank ryan; 01-11-2020, 01:04 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Bo Diddley
                    Senior
                    • Jul 2012
                    • 18826

                    #144
                    Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                    I'm actually really surprised they admitted this. That's better behavior than the world got from the Russians.
                    I don't think the people of Iran would have stood for continued denials in the face of overwhelming evidence to what really happened. The regime in Iran is not bullet proof.

                    Also, after watching this episode play out, it seems apparent that the Iranian regime won't go to war with us. They know they'll lose, and that will be the end to their regime. We just won the game of chicken. Iran is content to strike out assymetrically, but won't pull the trigger and go to war. I think we stepped up to DEFCON 2, but we're back to DEFCON 3.

                    Comment

                    • myboynoah
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 21719

                      #145
                      Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post
                      I don't think the people of Iran would have stood for continued denials in the face of overwhelming evidence to what really happened. The regime in Iran is not bullet proof.

                      Also, after watching this episode play out, it seems apparent that the Iranian regime won't go to war with us. They know they'll lose, and that will be the end to their regime. We just won the game of chicken. Iran is content to strike out assymetrically, but won't pull the trigger and go to war. I think we stepped up to DEFCON 2, but we're back to DEFCON 3.
                      Yep. Saddam ended up being dragged out of a spider hole.
                      Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                      For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                      Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                      Comment

                      • frank ryan
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 12397

                        #146
                        Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post
                        I don't think the people of Iran would have stood for continued denials in the face of overwhelming evidence to what really happened. The regime in Iran is not bullet proof.

                        Also, after watching this episode play out, it seems apparent that the Iranian regime won't go to war with us. They know they'll lose, and that will be the end to their regime. We just won the game of chicken. Iran is content to strike out assymetrically, but won't pull the trigger and go to war. I think we stepped up to DEFCON 2, but we're back to DEFCON 3.
                        That’s good. I’d have to guess that Bibi is disappointed by that.

                        Comment

                        • creekster
                          It is NOT a monkey!
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 22661

                          #147
                          Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                          SU is kind of a judge around these parts, so he doesn't really need to cite himself.
                          Plus I understand he is actually bald and likes to walk around naked.
                          PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                          Comment

                          • SCcoug
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 7625

                            #148

                            Comment

                            • Bo Diddley
                              Senior
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 18826

                              #149
                              We'll be going to DEFCON 4 soon. As close as we got, Trump was scared to push things too much with Iran. I'd say all bark no bite if it weren't for killing Soleimani with a drone back in January.

                              Still, I think Iran will try to make nice with us now that Biden is taking over the reins.

                              “We are happy that the other party has got the message and made its behavior more respectful," Foreign Ministry spokesman Saeed Khatibzadeh told reporters. He said the U.S. military is the “main source of tension” in the region and that Iranian forces have always acted professionally. “Unfortunately, the U.S. has often had an unprofessional approach toward Iran’s navy,” he said.

                              Comment

                              • YOhio
                                Hipster Mode
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 26165

                                #150
                                Fascinating and terrifying read. It seems that someone in Mossad R&D was a fan of Breaking Bad.

                                The Scientist and the A.I.-Assisted, Remote-Control Killer Robot


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