Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[Eddie]

Cynical much?

I know it’s been hard shoveling the tons of shit down your gullet that folks that think like you have been doing the last 5 years but that doesn’t mean everyone’s actions are some manifestation of moral rot.

The Dems took political risk by even attempting to impeach him, it looks like it was the right risk to take. I think the GOP will be forced to go along with a 9/11 style commission which almost assuredly will be political death to some major players in the GOP.

This is a good thing for everyone.

Super risky to impeach a guy that most Americans thought should be impeached. I'll bet that was a really scary move for them to take.

[fusnik]

Super risky to impeach a guy that most Americans thought should be impeached. I'll bet that was a really scary move for them to take.

You forget the context of all of this, not long ago, like 3 weeks ago, polling of the GOP indicated huge support for Trump and gave him very little blame for January 6th.

GOP members were on every talk show saying, Biden says he wants unity but this will further fracture the divide and their rhetoric was working. So much so that prominent Democrats started breaking from impeachment and started saying, let’s just do this quickly and move on.

Public sentiment has only started shifting away from him because the democrats did such a good job in impeachment. Could they have done better? Sure. Could they have added charges or asked for witnesses? Sure. But the die was cast when Rand Paul introduced his objections and a majority of the Senators agreed with him.

[All-American]

You're saying they successfully tricked the Republicans into not convicting. That's just too many conspiracy loops for me. Electorally the GOP was going to be in trouble either way anyway.

No, they weren't convicting one way or another. I think that much was clear. I don't think Dems could have successfully convicted him if only they put on a somewhat better case. Maybe they could have peeled off a few more Republicans, but not enough to get to 67.

I'm saying nothing more than that Democrats are using this situation to their best possible political advantage. That proposition should be neither surprising nor controversial.

[All-American]

Cynical much?

I know it’s been hard shoveling the tons of shit down your gullet that folks that think like you have been doing the last 5 years but that doesn’t mean everyone’s actions are some manifestation of moral rot.

The Dems took political risk by even attempting to impeach him, it looks like it was the right risk to take. I think the GOP will be forced to go along with a 9/11 style commission which almost assuredly will be political death to some major players in the GOP.

This is a good thing for everyone.

This response is really confusing. Do you actually disagree with any of the points I just said? (Maybe the first, but who cares about that one.)

[fusnik]

This response is really confusing. Do you actually disagree with any of the points I just said? (Maybe the first, but who cares about that one.)

I disagree that the democrats coordinated a failed impeachment attempt to hammer the GOP over the next 4 years.

[All-American]

I disagree that the democrats coordinated a failed impeachment attempt to hammer the GOP over the next 4 years.

Well, if you think Dems were going to succeed and get a conviction under any circumstances, or if you think they thought they were going to succeed under any circumstances, I don't know what to tell you. I certainly don't think either of those things is true.

They were going into this knowing the outcome was almost certainly going to be acquittal. That's not really a controversial suggestion, is it?

And knowing the outcome was almost certainly going to be acquittal, they did what they could to make the situation as advantageous for themselves as they could. Again, is that really a bold contention?

[Eddie]

I disagree that the democrats coordinated a failed impeachment attempt to hammer the GOP over the next 4 years.

So - do you think they believe they would win and Trump would be convicted in the senate? If not, why else would they go forward?

I don't think there's any way they thought they would win. The fact that they barely got enough votes to move forward should be plenty of evidence of that. And I'm sure they had read the room and knew where 90% of the senators stood on this before they took it to the senate.

[fusnik]

So - do you think they believe they would win and Trump would be convicted in the senate? If not, why else would they go forward?

I don't think there's any way they thought they would win. The fact that they barely got enough votes to move forward should be plenty of evidence of that. And I'm sure they had read the room and knew where 90% of the senators stood on this before they took it to the senate.

They attempted to do the right thing. Sometimes that’s all you can ask for from our elected officials.

What choice did they have?

The real question you should be asking yourself as a conservative is, why didn’t my party do anything concerning Trump and the insurrection?

[BlueK]

I'm saying nothing more than that Democrats are using this situation to their best possible political advantage. That proposition should be neither surprising nor controversial.

Nor is that the wrong thing to do. The fascist, anti-democracy elements of the GOP ushered in by Trump must be pushed out by the voters now.

[Eddie]

They attempted to do the right thing. Sometimes that’s all you can ask for from our elected officials.

What choice did they have?

The real question you should be asking yourself as a conservative is, why didn’t my party do anything concerning Trump and the insurrection?

I am definitely disappointed in many of the Republicans - no doubt about it.

But if you really and truly believe that the Dems gave no thought as to how an impeachment might benefit them politically and the only reason for impeachment was a desire to "do the right thing" - I've got some beachfront property east of Wendover I'd love to sell you...

[UVACoug]

I think you two are being too conspiratorial on this. You can be critical of their strategy but not wanting a conviction? Uh no, I don’t buy that. As far as having a Republican impeachment manager goes there wasn't much there to choose from and it would be asking that person to sacrifice their career for it. Keep that in mind.

I don't think so at all. When you start looking at the decisions that both parties make with the assumption that their motives are to gain as much political advantage over the other party as possible, rather than to "do the right thing," Washington politics makes so much more sense (and becomes much more depressing). This is just another episode in a long history, by both parties, of putting political gain over everything else. Neither party is motivated by principle. It's all about gaining as much power, and as many votes, as possible.

[UVACoug]

You're saying they successfully tricked the Republicans into not convicting. That's just too many conspiracy loops for me. Electorally the GOP was going to be in trouble either way anyway.

That's certainly not what I said. Republicans had their own political motivations for not convicting. If the calculus had been different though (i.e., they didn't have the stupid constitutional argument to fall back on or had no reasonable rebuttal to the impeachment charges), there may have been a different result (although I admit a different result was very unlikely regardless of the circumstances). No one was tricked into anything. They all know what the other sides motivations were.

[Bo Diddley]

That's certainly not what I said. Republicans had their own political motivations for not convicting. If the calculus had been different though (i.e., they didn't have the stupid constitutional argument to fall back on or had no reasonable rebuttal to the impeachment charges), there may have been a different result (although I admit a different result was very unlikely regardless of the circumstances). No one was tricked into anything. They all know what the other sides motivations were.

I don't believe it all comes down to power. On some level, many act out of a desire to do the right thing for the US.

[UVACoug]

I don't believe it all comes down to power. On some level, many act out of a desire to do the right thing for the US.

I'm sure there are individual members of both parties that try to do what they think is right, but the leadership of both parties certainly doesn't. And it is leadership that largely controls what actually happens in Congress.

[Bo Diddley]

I'm sure there are individual members of both parties that try to do what they think is right, but the leadership of both parties certainly doesn't. And it is leadership that largely controls what actually happens in Congress.

Agree to an extent, but I'd say there are leaders who try to do the right thing. Jimmy Carter for one. GWB ( for good or bad) for another, as well as his dad. I am hopeful Biden as well.