Originally posted by fusnik
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Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again
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Originally posted by Eddie View Post
Super risky to impeach a guy that most Americans thought should be impeached. I'll bet that was a really scary move for them to take.
GOP members were on every talk show saying, Biden says he wants unity but this will further fracture the divide and their rhetoric was working. So much so that prominent Democrats started breaking from impeachment and started saying, let’s just do this quickly and move on.
Public sentiment has only started shifting away from him because the democrats did such a good job in impeachment. Could they have done better? Sure. Could they have added charges or asked for witnesses? Sure. But the die was cast when Rand Paul introduced his objections and a majority of the Senators agreed with him.
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Originally posted by BlueK View Post
You're saying they successfully tricked the Republicans into not convicting. That's just too many conspiracy loops for me. Electorally the GOP was going to be in trouble either way anyway.
I'm saying nothing more than that Democrats are using this situation to their best possible political advantage. That proposition should be neither surprising nor controversial.τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν
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Originally posted by fusnik View Post
Cynical much?
I know it’s been hard shoveling the tons of shit down your gullet that folks that think like you have been doing the last 5 years but that doesn’t mean everyone’s actions are some manifestation of moral rot.
The Dems took political risk by even attempting to impeach him, it looks like it was the right risk to take. I think the GOP will be forced to go along with a 9/11 style commission which almost assuredly will be political death to some major players in the GOP.
This is a good thing for everyone.τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν
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Originally posted by All-American View Post
This response is really confusing. Do you actually disagree with any of the points I just said? (Maybe the first, but who cares about that one.)
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Originally posted by fusnik View Post
I disagree that the democrats coordinated a failed impeachment attempt to hammer the GOP over the next 4 years.
They were going into this knowing the outcome was almost certainly going to be acquittal. That's not really a controversial suggestion, is it?
And knowing the outcome was almost certainly going to be acquittal, they did what they could to make the situation as advantageous for themselves as they could. Again, is that really a bold contention?τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν
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Originally posted by fusnik View Post
I disagree that the democrats coordinated a failed impeachment attempt to hammer the GOP over the next 4 years.
I don't think there's any way they thought they would win. The fact that they barely got enough votes to move forward should be plenty of evidence of that. And I'm sure they had read the room and knew where 90% of the senators stood on this before they took it to the senate.
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Originally posted by Eddie View Post
So - do you think they believe they would win and Trump would be convicted in the senate? If not, why else would they go forward?
I don't think there's any way they thought they would win. The fact that they barely got enough votes to move forward should be plenty of evidence of that. And I'm sure they had read the room and knew where 90% of the senators stood on this before they took it to the senate.
What choice did they have?
The real question you should be asking yourself as a conservative is, why didn’t my party do anything concerning Trump and the insurrection?
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Originally posted by All-American View Post
I'm saying nothing more than that Democrats are using this situation to their best possible political advantage. That proposition should be neither surprising nor controversial.Last edited by BlueK; 02-15-2021, 03:17 PM.
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Originally posted by fusnik View Post
They attempted to do the right thing. Sometimes that’s all you can ask for from our elected officials.
What choice did they have?
The real question you should be asking yourself as a conservative is, why didn’t my party do anything concerning Trump and the insurrection?
But if you really and truly believe that the Dems gave no thought as to how an impeachment might benefit them politically and the only reason for impeachment was a desire to "do the right thing" - I've got some beachfront property east of Wendover I'd love to sell you...
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Originally posted by BlueK View Post
I think you two are being too conspiratorial on this. You can be critical of their strategy but not wanting a conviction? Uh no, I don’t buy that. As far as having a Republican impeachment manager goes there wasn't much there to choose from and it would be asking that person to sacrifice their career for it. Keep that in mind.
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Originally posted by BlueK View Post
You're saying they successfully tricked the Republicans into not convicting. That's just too many conspiracy loops for me. Electorally the GOP was going to be in trouble either way anyway.
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Originally posted by UVACoug View Post
That's certainly not what I said. Republicans had their own political motivations for not convicting. If the calculus had been different though (i.e., they didn't have the stupid constitutional argument to fall back on or had no reasonable rebuttal to the impeachment charges), there may have been a different result (although I admit a different result was very unlikely regardless of the circumstances). No one was tricked into anything. They all know what the other sides motivations were.
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Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post
I don't believe it all comes down to power. On some level, many act out of a desire to do the right thing for the US.
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Originally posted by UVACoug View Post
I'm sure there are individual members of both parties that try to do what they think is right, but the leadership of both parties certainly doesn't. And it is leadership that largely controls what actually happens in Congress.
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