Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[beefytee]

State Department Witness: White House Blocked 2018 Statement Condemning Russia for Attacking Ukraine




https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...cking-ukraine/

What was the timeline on this? Is this connected at all to the quid pro quo? If not, this is a whole lot of nothing as far as impeachment goes. Sure it was the wrong move by the president, but those happen daily and I don't see any bearing on impeachment.

[BlueK]

This whole impeachment process just seems weird to me somehow. I get that at the level we're talking about, we're beyond people being impartial and there are political elements to everything - but it just seems odd.

Either Trump broke the law or he didn't. If he did, and there's enough evidence to prove it, then I hope there are appropriate consequences. To me, my unease isn't about that.

I just can't help but compare the impeachment process to a "normal" criminal proceeding.

Some of Trumps critics in the House were saying they were going to impeach him from the day he was elected, before there was any evidence of wrongdoing beyond abrasive and inappropriate tweets. Before there was any talk of Russia or collusion. It's "weird" to me that these folks will now be his jury. People like Maxine Waters, who was calling for his impeachment from the time of his inauguration. Can you imagine being charged with a crime, and as the jury box fills it includes some of your biggest enemies, all saying "yeah, I'm going to get him". People who have been telling the world in front of press conferences for the last 3 years that they are going to convict you of a crime one day.

Of course, the process has to be different than the norm when it comes to the President. Of course it has to rely on a larger body, such as congress, that then must answer to the voters.

I'm just a little bit uneasy at how politicized this has been from the beginning. I wish I had more faith and trust in members of congress to actually review and weight the evidence - but I'm afraid that the vast majority already know that they are going to vote "guilty" or "not guilty" long before any evidence is presented.

the witnesses that have been making statements in those committees will testify in public now and we can go from there. If it's bad enough I think even some Republicans in the Senate will probably start turning.

[frank ryan]

What was the timeline on this? Is this connected at all to the quid pro quo? If not, this is a whole lot of nothing as far as impeachment goes. Sure it was the wrong move by the president, but those happen daily and I don't see any bearing on impeachment.

I think it’s just further evidence of Trump being in the tank for Putin, which is some reason for kicking him out of office.

[Commando]

This whole impeachment process just seems weird to me somehow. I get that at the level we're talking about, we're beyond people being impartial and there are political elements to everything - but it just seems odd.

Either Trump broke the law or he didn't. If he did, and there's enough evidence to prove it, then I hope there are appropriate consequences. To me, my unease isn't about that.

I just can't help but compare the impeachment process to a "normal" criminal proceeding.

Some of Trumps critics in the House were saying they were going to impeach him from the day he was elected, before there was any evidence of wrongdoing beyond abrasive and inappropriate tweets. Before there was any talk of Russia or collusion. It's "weird" to me that these folks will now be his jury. People like Maxine Waters, who was calling for his impeachment from the time of his inauguration. Can you imagine being charged with a crime, and as the jury box fills it includes some of your biggest enemies, all saying "yeah, I'm going to get him". People who have been telling the world in front of press conferences for the last 3 years that they are going to convict you of a crime one day.

Of course, the process has to be different than the norm when it comes to the President. Of course it has to rely on a larger body, such as congress, that then must answer to the voters.

I'm just a little bit uneasy at how politicized this has been from the beginning. I wish I had more faith and trust in members of congress to actually review and weight the evidence - but I'm afraid that the vast majority already know that they are going to vote "guilty" or "not guilty" long before any evidence is presented.

Broke the law? Criminal proceeding? Why is your burden of proof so high for impeachment? This is a check on the executive branch that the legislature is entrusted with and it's crazy how evasive the White House has been- calling the process illegal, a witchhunt, etc. GTFOH. You know Madison wrote that incompetence was grounds enough for impeachment.

[frank ryan]

This whole impeachment process just seems weird to me somehow. I get that at the level we're talking about, we're beyond people being impartial and there are political elements to everything - but it just seems odd.

Either Trump broke the law or he didn't. If he did, and there's enough evidence to prove it, then I hope there are appropriate consequences. To me, my unease isn't about that.

I just can't help but compare the impeachment process to a "normal" criminal proceeding.

Some of Trumps critics in the House were saying they were going to impeach him from the day he was elected, before there was any evidence of wrongdoing beyond abrasive and inappropriate tweets. Before there was any talk of Russia or collusion. It's "weird" to me that these folks will now be his jury. People like Maxine Waters, who was calling for his impeachment from the time of his inauguration. Can you imagine being charged with a crime, and as the jury box fills it includes some of your biggest enemies, all saying "yeah, I'm going to get him". People who have been telling the world in front of press conferences for the last 3 years that they are going to convict you of a crime one day.

Of course, the process has to be different than the norm when it comes to the President. Of course it has to rely on a larger body, such as congress, that then must answer to the voters.

I'm just a little bit uneasy at how politicized this has been from the beginning. I wish I had more faith and trust in members of congress to actually review and weight the evidence - but I'm afraid that the vast majority already know that they are going to vote "guilty" or "not guilty" long before any evidence is presented.

Just who has talked about impeaching Trump immediately after he was elected and what did they say? I’m curious on the specifics. Nancy Pelosi certainly wasn’t one of them.

[All-American]

Just who has talked about impeaching Trump immediately after he was elected and what did they say? I’m curious on the specifics. Nancy Pelosi certainly wasn’t one of them.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016...h-donald-trump

[Uncle Ted]

the witnesses that have been making statements in those committees will testify in public now and we can go from there. If it's bad enough I think even some Republicans in the Senate will probably start turning.

Not a single GOP'er in the house voted for the impeachment rules... But two Dems voted with the GOP'ers today. Yes, the GOP'ers seem to be turning!

Why don't they just release the transcripts? If they witnesses have been making statements why can't we see them? I am guessing they want to cherry pick who they put in front of the cameras, folks with only 2nd hand testimonies. It sounds like the GOP'ers won't even be able to call anyone to testify.

They are trying to impeach the president because they don't like they way he talks to foreign leaders and claim that he is Putin's puppet. Ask Frank.

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So we will just have a sh*t show that will just further divide the nation and the senate won't give it the time of day. That's where it will die. Seems like yet another waste.of.time. On the bright side it will most likely do more damage than good to the two parties (because folks will be sick of all the partisan BS) and maybe a 3rd party will get some more attention this next election cycle.

[Northwestcoug]

Not a single GOP'er in the house voted for the impeachment rules... But two Dems voted with the GOP'ers today. Yes, the GOP'ers seem to be turning!

Why don't they just release the transcripts? If they witnesses have been making statements why can't we see them? I am guessing they want to cherry pick who they put in front of the cameras, folks with only 2nd hand testimonies. It sounds like the GOP'ers won't even be able to call anyone to testify.

They are trying to impeach the president because they don't like they way he talks to foreign leaders and claim that he is Putin's puppet. Ask Frank.

[ATTACH]9822[/ATTACH]

So we will just have a sh*t show that will just further divide the nation and the senate won't give it the time of day. That's where it will die. Seems like yet another waste.of.time. On the bright side it will most likely do more damage than good to the two parties (because folks will be sick of all the partisan BS) and maybe a 3rd party will get some more attention this next election cycle.

That's funny Ted. You're not fooling anyone. Your memes are as partisan as the national parties you ostensibly rail against.

[Uncle Ted]

I might be wrong... The Dems could be setting themselves up for yuge bloodbath in the election next year, instead:

Democrats are wasting America's time on impeachment

Let me skip to the end: The Democratic-majority US House of Representatives, in partisan fashion, is all but certain to impeach President Donald Trump. The Republican-majority Senate, in partisan fashion, will almost certainly acquit him. And the net result will be that Democrats will have abused the US Constitution to satisfy political passions instead of approaching impeachment as the solemn act the framers intended.

Let's be honest. The Democrats were always going to do this. From the minute we realized on election night that Donald Trump had won, they began fantasizing about nullifying the election results. Indeed, in the weeks leading up to the 2016 election, the Democrats' biggest concern was that Trump would not accept the outcome -- a Hillary Clinton win, of course! -- of which they were quite certain.
[...]
Democrats have failed to galvanize public opinion to the view that Trump's controversial July 25 phone conversation with the Ukrainian president was an impeachable offense. The latest polling shows that Democrats think it is impeachable and Republicans don't, and that voters in swing states aren't on board with this yet. In other words, the people who already wanted to impeach Trump are willing to throw any log onto the impeachment fire, no matter how wet the wood is. But virtually no one else is joining in.
[...]
I doubt Trump loses any Republican votes in the Senate during his all-but-certain impeachment trial. And the numerous Senate Democrats running for president will be screaming about it, torn every day between showing up for jury duty and campaigning in Iowa.
[...]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/31/opini...ngs/index.html

Of course, that was from CNN so take it with an yuge grain of salt.

[frank ryan]

More GOP warning and threatening that impeaching Trump could lead to civil war. To compare this to coup is irresponsible. I don't remember this rheteroric during Clinton's impeachment and I unborn when Nixon was under fire, but this stuff is unhelpful.

“Never in the history of this country have we had such gross unfairness that one party would put armed guards with guns to prevent the duly authorized people from being able to hear the witnesses and see them for themselves...That’s not the kind of evidence that a coup should be based on. If we’re going to have what they’re trying to legalize as a coup, we ought to have a right to see each of those witnesses. It’s about to push this country to a civil war if they were to get their wishes,” Gohmert opined. “And if there’s one thing I don’t want to see in my lifetime, I don’t want to ever have participation in, it’s a civil war. Some historian, I don’t remember who, said, guns are only involved in the last phase of a civil war.”

-

Rep. Louie Gohmert

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...achment-trump/

[Uncle Ted]

More GOP warning and threatening that impeaching Trump could lead to civil war. To compare this to coup is irresponsible. I don't remember this rheteroric during Clinton's impeachment and I unborn when Nixon was under fire, but this stuff is unhelpful.

-

Rep. Louie Gohmert

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...achment-trump/

I blame MLB... They should outlaw that un-American sport.

[Uncle Ted]

Just who has talked about impeaching Trump immediately after he was elected and what did they say? I’m curious on the specifics. Nancy Pelosi certainly wasn’t one of them.

Yes, Frank is right! In fact, Nancy Pelosi said she wouldn't go down the path of impeachment unless there was something really "compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan":

Pelosi: 'I'm not for impeachment' of Trump
[...]
“I’m not for impeachment,” Pelosi, the top U.S. Democrat, said in the interview, which was conducted last week.

“Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country,” she said. “He’s just not worth it.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1QS2JG

I guess she changed her mind and now wants to divide the county. If it gets Drumpf out of the white house then it must be worth it! We can't let the people decide in the upcoming election. They are dumb and will just vote for Drumpf again instead of the crazy Liz/Bernie ticket. (OK, maybe they are not so dumb.)

But wait... maybe the Dems do have something that is bigly compelling and overwhelming? Dammit, why don't they release the transcripts now?!? Enquiring minds what to know!


But if they don't the GOP'ers in the senate (maybe even including Romney to show that he is loyal to the party and worthy to be re-elected by the good citizens of Utah) will just acquit Drumpf on anything that comes out of the house. And the Dems will just look like a big bunch of crazy *ss fools again which seems pretty natural and the norm for them these days. Also, we would have four more years of Drumpf and maybe even a republican controlled house. The Dems are all in! I like it.

[BlueK]

From a U. of N. Carolina Constitutional law professor:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...timate/601165/

[beefytee]

From a U. of N. Carolina Constitutional law professor:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...timate/601165/

Another article that talks about the dangerous road we are going down:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...leavage-229895

[BlueK]

Trump: "Read the transcript!"

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/01/polit...all/index.html