Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[Walter Sobchak]

Immediately led to deaths of our allies. And of our reputation.

Our reputation in the Middle East? Ha. Good one.

[Uncle Ted]

In many ways they aren’t, and it’s getting worse under Erdogan, but Turkey’s geographic location make them such a strategic member of NATO and they are also home to some of our nukes. But they are a shitty ally in practical terms.

Location, location, location... Turkey has some good real estate for parking our nukes and our air force. From there we can fly our bomber drones into Iran, nice. Not to mention it is a good location to reach over and slap Russia if Putin (your "buddy") acts up.

So what do the Kurds have to offer? It seems we have a long history of screwing them over so I am guessing not much. It seems we just use them now and then for our f*'ed up foreign policy in that region:

On the one hand, the Kurds are a perfect tool for U.S. foreign policy. We can arm the Kurds in whichever of these countries is currently our enemy, whether to make trouble for that country’s government or to accomplish various other objectives. On the other hand, we don’t want the Kurds we’re utilizing to ever get too powerful. If that happened, the other Kurds — i.e., the ones living just across the border in whichever of these countries are currently our allies — might get ideas about freedom and independence.

So maybe the Kurds were getting some ideas about freedom and independence?

[Jeff Lebowski]

UT, this issue is proof that you will be a trump toadie/apologist for literally everything he does, no matter how disgusting or indefensible. Unreal.

[Walter Sobchak]

Nothing entitled the Kurds to a permanent American security guarantee. The U.S. doesn't belong in Syria.

[frank ryan]

Nothing entitled the Kurds to a permanent American security guarantee. The U.S. doesn't belong in Syria.

So, are you going on record as approving of this decision? Not even warmonger Noam Chomsky agrees with you.

[CardiacCoug]

Nothing entitled the Kurds to a permanent American security guarantee. The U.S. doesn't belong in Syria.

Trump is an idiot and should have told Turkey to go F itself and said we will pull Americans out of Syria when we’re good and ready.

But where Ron Paul and Rand Paul are correct is that the questions aren’t “Should the Kurds be protected?” or “Should the Kurds have a right to establish an independent nation of Kurdistan?”

It seems like the answers to those questions are surely Yes of course the Kurds should be autonomous and in a perfect world would be given their own independent country out of Kurdish Turkey, Syria, and Iraq.

But the question to ask really is “Would you be proud for your son or daughter or brother or sister to give his/her life to accomplish this goal on behalf of Kurdish people?” The answer to this if people are being honest is probably Hell NO. Let the Kurds figure this out themselves. The US can try to punish harshly of course the governments who participate in ethnic cleansing of any kind through sanctions or even some type of military help but the US can’t create a perfect world.

[chrisrenrut]

Trump is an idiot and should have told Turkey to go F itself and said we will pull Americans out of Syria when we’re good and ready.

But where Ron Paul and Rand Paul are correct is that the questions aren’t “Should the Kurds be protected?” or “Should the Kurds have a right to establish an independent nation of Kurdistan?”

It seems like the answers to those questions are surely Yes of course the Kurds should be autonomous and in a perfect world would be given their own independent country out of Kurdish Turkey, Syria, and Iraq.

But the question to ask really is “Would you be proud for your son or daughter or brother or sister to give his/her life to accomplish this goal on behalf of Kurdish people?” The answer to this if people are being honest is probably Hell NO. Let the Kurds figure this out themselves. The US can try to punish harshly of course the governments who participate in ethnic cleansing of any kind through sanctions or even some type of military help but the US can’t create a perfect world.

Put another way, “Would you be proud for your son or daughter or brother or sister to give his/her life to defend an oppressed people with a history of being victims of genocide, with multiple enemies and little ability to defend themselves?”

[frank ryan]

Put another way, “Would you be proud for your son or daughter or brother or sister to give his/her life to defend an oppressed people with a history of being victims of genocide, with multiple enemies and little ability to defend themselves?”

And loyal allies of the US?

[Walter Sobchak]

Put another way, “Would you be proud for your son or daughter or brother or sister to give his/her life to defend an oppressed people with a history of being victims of genocide, with multiple enemies and little ability to defend themselves?”

Still an easy "Hell NO!". It is not the job of the US military to "Right the World's Wrongs^®". That is the untenable position held by the majority of the Left and the Right for a few decades now. It has only cost us blood, treasure, and sorrow. Angling for more of the same by appealing to emotion (like you have done) is just more of the same bullshit we endured under Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Trump has a fine line to walk here. He wants to get out of Syria, he's said as much (openly and vocally) many times... but the "Adults in The Room™" have not complied. If he keeps pushing on this, then the Republican hawks in the Senate may turn on him and take their chances on a President Pence continuing our failed foreign policies of intervention and empire.

[frank ryan]

Still an easy "Hell NO!". It is not the job of the US military to "Right the World's Wrongs^®". That is the untenable position held by the majority of the Left and the Right for a few decades now. It has only cost us blood, treasure, and sorrow. Angling for more of the same by appealing to emotion (like you have done) is just more of the same bullshit we endured under Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Trump has a fine line to walk here. He wants to get out of Syria, he's said as much (openly and vocally) many times... but the "Adults in The Room™" have not complied. If he keeps pushing on this, then the Republican hawks in the Senate may turn on him and take their chances on a President Pence continuing our failed foreign policies of intervention and empire.

You're delusional for thinking Trump has any sort of principled policy reason for doing this.

In the mean time, it looks Turkey's offensive will help make ISIS great again!

Turkish attack on Kurdish-held town allows 950 ISIS detainees to escape

https://www.axios.com/isis-detainees...b8dbb6e9c.html

[LVAllen]

Still an easy "Hell NO!". It is not the job of the US military to "Right the World's Wrongs^®". That is the untenable position held by the majority of the Left and the Right for a few decades now. It has only cost us blood, treasure, and sorrow. Angling for more of the same by appealing to emotion (like you have done) is just more of the same bullshit we endured under Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Trump has a fine line to walk here. He wants to get out of Syria, he's said as much (openly and vocally) many times... but the "Adults in The Room™" have not complied. If he keeps pushing on this, then the Republican hawks in the Senate may turn on him and take their chances on a President Pence continuing our failed foreign policies of intervention and empire.

After this, I don't ever want to hear another military worshiper proclaim that those who died in uniform died "protecting freedom." The videos and images that are coming out now are that Turk-supported forces are killing civilians. A female Kurdish politician was executed. Turkey claimed it she was killed by aerial bombardment, but photographs show her vehicle riddles with bullet holes. Captives are being executed. Turkish forces are already operating far deeper into Syria that they claimed they would be.

Their blood is on Trump's hands because he had the ability to prevent it simply by leaving minimal forces in the area. Instead, he gave them the green light.

[Walter Sobchak]

Their blood is on Trump's hands because he had the ability to prevent it simply by leaving minimal forces in the area. Instead, he gave them the green light.

Obama is the stable genius that put us in Syria, not Trump.

[UVACoug]

Still an easy "Hell NO!". It is not the job of the US military to "Right the World's Wrongs^[emoji2400]". That is the untenable position held by the majority of the Left and the Right for a few decades now. It has only cost us blood, treasure, and sorrow. Angling for more of the same by appealing to emotion (like you have done) is just more of the same bullshit we endured under Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Trump has a fine line to walk here. He wants to get out of Syria, he's said as much (openly and vocally) many times... but the "Adults in The Room[emoji769]" have not complied. If he keeps pushing on this, then the Republican hawks in the Senate may turn on him and take their chances on a President Pence continuing our failed foreign policies of intervention and empire.

There are good reasons to get out of Syria completely, and inserting ourselves into the conflict is certainly worthy of criticism. But having already inserted ourselves, would you not agree that it is incumbent on us to withdraw in a manner that does not facilitate the mass genocide of our loyal allies?


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[Uncle Ted]

After this, I don't ever want to hear another military worshiper proclaim that those who died in uniform died "protecting freedom." The videos and images that are coming out now are that Turk-supported forces are killing civilians. A female Kurdish politician was executed. Turkey claimed it she was killed by aerial bombardment, but photographs show her vehicle riddles with bullet holes. Captives are being executed. Turkish forces are already operating far deeper into Syria that they claimed they would be.

Their blood is on Trump's hands because he had the ability to prevent it simply by leaving minimal forces in the area. Instead, he gave them the green light.

So both NATO and the UN have no problems with the civilian killing forces from Turkey? Or do they just spend all their time arguing?

Erdogan senior adviser denies Turkey fired at American troops in northern Syria
[...]
The Pentagon said Friday that U.S. troops near the border town of Kobane in northern Syria came under artillery fire from Turkish positions. The area where the explosion occurred is an area known by the Turks to have U.S. forces present there, according to the Pentagon
[...]

https://www.foxnews.com/media/erdogan-turkey-denies-firing-american-troops-northern-syria

So can we kick Turkey out of NATO and carpet bomb them now?

[Pelado]

So both NATO and the UN have no problems with the civilian killing forces from Turkey? Or do they just spend all their time arguing?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/erdogan-turkey-denies-firing-american-troops-northern-syria

So can we kick Turkey out of NATO and carpet bomb them now?

Not yet. I need to load up on some defense contractor stock first.