Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[creekster]

Doesn't change my point at all. Whataboutism is a cancer that is rotting our national dialogue. Not to mention that it is boring as hell.

Glad your point remains unchanged. I was only trying to add to the discussion so....

Disagree that it is the cancer. It is the symptom. And failing to distinguish between instances that constitute whataboutism as opposed to those that do not, or those instances that are presented for different purposes than whataboutism, is a further symptom. And I am sorry you find it so boring.

[Uncle Ted]

Biden and representatives from several European countries wanted that prosecutor fired because he wasn't investigating corruption, including into the company Biden's son had a connection to. Under the previous two regimes, corruption was a major problem in Ukraine, which Europe and the US at the time wanted to have them address before sending money or military aid.

It is funny that you say "the company Biden's son had a connection to"...

Hunter (aka, "the crackhead" that was kicked out of the Navy for doing coke) Biden was being paid $50,000 a month to be on the board of that company. He didn't know a thing about energy or even the language of the foreign country. So you are saying that this company that the crackhead hired him because they thought he was an expert in energy? Hunter, the crackhead, is a train wreck. There is no way he was quantified to sit on the board of that company. If the crackhead sitting on the board of this company you say "[he] had a [just] connection to" and being paid $50,000 per month doesn't strikes you as being odd then you are not paying attention.

#WhatAboutTheDrumpfKids?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Glad your point remains unchanged. I was only trying to add to the discussion so....

Disagree that it is the cancer. It is the symptom. And failing to distinguish between instances that constitute whataboutism as opposed to those that do not, or those instances that are presented for different purposes than whataboutism, is a further symptom. And I am sorry you find it so boring.

Strawman #1: I never said that there are not legitimate cases where hypocrisy is worth pointing out. I know full well how to distinguish between the two.

Strawman #2: Distinguishing between legit hypocrisy and whataboutism is not boring. Constant use of whataboutism as a response is boring. Ditto for debating pretty much anything with you.

[Uncle Ted]

If this is the worst thing Biden has done, he sounds like a good candidate

Biden has a long record of being a sch*ffhead besides being a crony. For example, remember when he was caught for plagiarism... multiple times? JFK Jr even called him a traitor:

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Little John Jr, RIP.



Joe Biden and his crackhead son are terrible people. You Dems should be thanking Drumpf for getting him out of the race.

[creekster]

Strawman #1: I never said that there are not legitimate cases where hypocrisy is worth pointing out. I know full well how to distinguish between the two.

Strawman #2: Distinguishing between legit hypocrisy and whataboutism is not boring. Constant use of whataboutism as a response is boring. Ditto for debating pretty much anything with you.

I apologize for boring you. But it is sort of ironic since few seem to have the stamina for it that you do.

Maybe I misunderstood you. In the spirit of avoiding the cancer and understanding what you mean, what is the difference between hypocrisy and whataboutism? Do you mean to suggest that they are antonyms? I don't see them that way. I would explain why but I don't want to bore you more than I almost certainly already have.

Besides, constant use of ANYTHING as a response is boring. Constant dismissal of arguments by claiming whatbaoutism is also boring. But it strikes me as odd that if you really find the whole thing oh-so-tedious and dull that you bother yourself so often to claim arguments are whataboutism. When I find things boring I usually just ignore them, but different strokes.

But we do have common ground: Hypocrisy can be a legitimate argument. Repeating shorthand titles for arguments is boring.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Haha. Not taking that bait.

[creekster]

Haha. Not taking that bait.

not bait. But I think if you are seeing whatbaoutism and hypocrisy as antonyms then you have it wrong. And that would explain why you shout the word out so often. Could be that I have it wrong, of course, but you don't want to explain yourself, which is up to you.

[Eddie]

Eddie, he hid these on a server we wasn't supposed to. Just as he did with the Ukraine phone call details. As far as I know, it's unprecedented. I don't think the general public needs to have access to them, but they shouldn't be hidden in such a manner that it would be hard for an investigator to know they exist sans a whistleblower.

Congress is having a hard time learning what Trump spoke with Putin about in Helsinki. He isn't hiding things from the media, he's hiding them from oversight. I guess where you and I differ, is you give Trump the benefit of the doubt, and your default suspicion falls on democrats and the media. Trump's life is full of examples of dishonesty, beyond the usual political hijinks. I think the mainstream media, who has the unenviable job of covering a man who has at times wished violence on them, gets things right a lot more often than wrong. Certainly, the media reporting on Trump's actions doesn't equal anything conspiratorial.

First - what Creekster said. How Trump is storing this stuff may be new and may be unprecedented, as you say. But the fact that he is hiding stuff from congress and/or is being difficult to work with as far as providing them information is definitely NOT new. And, as Creekster said, these servers were not hidden from everyone. They were a known quantity - though I can certainly see and agree with the idea that this could create issues as far as who classifies information and how it is classified in order to segment it and keep it out of certain hands. But its existence was known, if its content was not.

Second - I can accept that I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to people. And I'll even accept that I tend to give that benefit of the doubt to people who see things like me even more. But I wouldn't say I give the benefit of the doubt to Trump over Democrats. I'm pretty skeptical of both of them. I don't trust what Trump says about Democrats to be true, and I don't necessarily trust what Democrats have to say about Trump as being true. I want to see the evidence before I accept either sides interpretation of said evidence. From my perspective, both sides have done a good job of horribly misinterpreting and twisting evidence to fit their narrative. And I'll admit that I tend to not see the same level of bugaboos in that evidence - or at least not with the same clarity and conviction - as what either side sees and interprets.

I accept that I find the Republican position on issues more favorable. So when it comes to disagreements, I tend to support that side. But if we're talking about investigations and allegations of fraud or corruption - those are issues I try to take a more objective look at regardless of side. Those aren't policy issues, that is all about misbehavior.

[chrisrenrut]

I apologize for boring you. But it is sort of ironic since few seem to have the stamina for it that you do.

Maybe I misunderstood you. In the spirit of avoiding the cancer and understanding what you mean, what is the difference between hypocrisy and whataboutism? Do you mean to suggest that they are antonyms? I don't see them that way. I would explain why but I don't want to bore you more than I almost certainly already have.

Not antonyms, but not synonyms either? Like the difference between irony and coincidence? And almost as misunderstood?

[creekster]

Not antonyms, but not synonyms either? Like the difference between irony and coincidence? And almost as misunderstood?

That makes sense. And yes, I think very misunderstood by many, maybe me.

[myboynoah]

So I've given it some time, but it seems that Trump is not "making America great again." More like "making America suck like it has never sucked before and will never suck again."

[Uncle Ted]

Important Safety Tip: Don't ask Joe about his son.... He might rip your head off and spit down your throat.

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[Uncle Ted]

Sch*ff gets Four Pinocchios from WaPo:

Schiff’s false claim his committee had not spoken to the whistleblower

“We have not spoken directly with the whistleblower. We would like to.”


— Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.), in an interview with MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” Sept. 17
[...]
Schiff earns Four Pinocchios.


Four Pinocchios

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...whistleblower/

But the Whistleblower most likely disclosed that all of this to the IG so we are cool, right? Oh sch*ff!...

Whistleblower did not disclose contact with Schiff’s committee to inspector general, sources say

The intelligence community whistleblower who alleged misconduct at the White House over President Trump’s call to the Ukrainian president did not disclose contact with House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff’s staff to the intelligence committee inspector general (ICIG), sources told Fox News Friday.
[...]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukr...al-sources-say



But I am sure he or she is non-partisan and completely neutral in all of this, right? Oh sch*ff!..

On Friday, sources also told Fox News that Atkinson also revealed that the whistleblower volunteered he or she was a registered Democrat and that they had a prior working relationship with a prominent Democratic politician.

[frank ryan]

Important Safety Tip: Don't ask Joe about his son.... He might rip your head off and spit down your throat.

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Start a Biden threat UT.

[Uncle Ted]

Start a Biden threat UT.

Threaten Biden?!? The secret service would be all over me!