Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[myboynoah]

I am not up to speed on the issue of the closed hearings. Ignoring the silly bleating of Trump and his closest associates, it does nonetheless seem a bit odd, especially given that they have yet to vote in the house to begin an inquiry. Can someone tell me why they are holding closed door hearings? Is it to allow testimony regarding classified or near-classified information? That would seem pretty reasonable. Is there some other reason?

As I see it, this is the investigation portion of this process before charges are brought (impeachment) and the trial is held (in the Senate). Probably best to do that in private, as has been done in the past. The one thing that seems to be different from the past is not taking a vote to begin the inquiry.

[Commando]

I am not up to speed on the issue of the closed hearings. Ignoring the silly bleating of Trump and his closest associates, it does nonetheless seem a bit odd, especially given that they have yet to vote in the house to begin an inquiry. Can someone tell me why they are holding closed door hearings? Is it to allow testimony regarding classified or near-classified information? That would seem pretty reasonable. Is there some other reason?

Those are closed door depositions conducted by three committees-- Intelligence, Foreign Affairs, and Oversight. Note that there are Republicans on those committees who have equal time with the witnesses. I'm not sure what the complaint is, other than the opportunity to create a stunt that will impress Trump days after he complained that 'Republicans need to get tougher.'

[SeattleUte]

I am not up to speed on the issue of the closed hearings. Ignoring the silly bleating of Trump and his closest associates, it does nonetheless seem a bit odd, especially given that they have yet to vote in the house to begin an inquiry. Can someone tell me why they are holding closed door hearings? Is it to allow testimony regarding classified or near-classified information? That would seem pretty reasonable. Is there some other reason?

Analogous to a grand jury? The reason grand jury proceedings are secret is that if the subject doesn't get charged with a crime there's no reason to make this information public, some of which may be invasive of privacy, damaging to reputation, etc.

The republican members of the House are totally misguided. Trump will get due process in the Senate. Until then, he's not really entitled to it. Just like a criminal defendant isn't before he's formally charged.

Also, as we've agreed, Republicans need to be fast-tracking this to get it over as long as possible before the election.

[creekster]

As I see it, this is the investigation portion of this process before charges are brought (impeachment) and the trial is held (in the Senate). Probably best to do that in private, as has been done in the past. The one thing that seems to be different from the past is not taking a vote to begin the inquiry.

I can see that. If I was cynical I might think they are setting it up to time it for the election. IOW, they have a load of non-public hearings, not even allowing house members not on the committees to read transcripts, and then they wait until the election is too close to have enough time for a Senate trial but they will have enough time to set forth the testimony, etc., they plan to use to support their suggested charges, which they will need to provide to all of the House. They will thereby get the full impact of a potential impeachment without the blowback of a failed trial in the Senate.

It's not that I think Trump needs protection; He deserves all he might get. And it clearly is not a trial, yet. But Schiff is such a worm that this is the sort of thing he would try. While Trump is awful, I still maintain that we need to try to be as open and fair-minded as possible to help whatever comes next. The processes are hugely important. Trump is an end we do not want to see again and the best bulwark against such repetition is to strengthen and adhere to the processes that constitute the backbone of our system. The quidditch pro quo (tip o' the hat to SU) seems pretty clear, to me, even if it can't be proven. But whether there is a chance to convict, or not, the process should be as pristine and above reproach as possible.

[creekster]

Analogous to a grand jury? The reason grand jury proceedings are secret is that if the subject doesn't get charged with a crime there's no reason to make this information public, some of which may be invasive of privacy, damaging to reputation, etc.

The republican members of the House are totally misguided. Trump will get due process in the Senate. Until then, he's not really entitled to it. Just like a criminal defendant isn't before he's formally charged.

Also, as we've agreed, Republicans need to be fast-tracking this to get it over as long as possible before the election.

The grand jury is the house, not the committee. The entire house has to approve charges.

[creekster]

Those are closed door depositions conducted by three committees-- Intelligence, Foreign Affairs, and Oversight. Note that there are Republicans on those committees who have equal time with the witnesses. I'm not sure what the complaint is, other than the opportunity to create a stunt that will impress Trump days after he complained that 'Republicans need to get tougher.'

I agree that the republican grandstanding about due process is silly. But I am not sure why they aren't public hearings/depositions.

[myboynoah]

I can see that. If I was cynical I might think they are setting it up to time it for the election. IOW, they have a load of non-public hearings, not even allowing house members not on the committees to read transcripts, and then they wait until the election is too close to have enough time for a Senate trial but they will have enough time to set forth the testimony, etc., they plan to use to support their suggested charges, which they will need to provide to all of the House. They will thereby get the full impact of a potential impeachment without the blowback of a failed trial in the Senate.

It's not that I think Trump needs protection; He deserves all he might get. And it clearly is not a trial, yet. But Schiff is such a worm that this is the sort of thing he would try. While Trump is awful, I still maintain that we need to try to be as open and fair-minded as possible to help whatever comes next. The processes are hugely important. Trump is an end we do not want to see again and the best bulwark against such repetition is to strengthen and adhere to the processes that constitute the backbone of our system. The quidditch pro quo (tip o' the hat to SU) seems pretty clear, to me, even if it can't be proven. But whether there is a chance to convict, or not, the process should be as pristine and above reproach as possible.

I agree that it should be pristine, and it seems to be, despite all the protestations and stunts from Trump and his followers. But that is Trump's MO. I continue to be amazed that seemingly sane people follow this guy. I guess they are actually insane.

[falafel]

As I see it, this is the investigation portion of this process before charges are brought (impeachment) and the trial is held (in the Senate). Probably best to do that in private, as has been done in the past. The one thing that seems to be different from the past is not taking a vote to begin the inquiry.

Another point is that the Trump administration has thus far refused to participate in the investigation by refusing to respond to subpoenas, etc. Those efforts would likely result in non-public information as well (I doubt the subpoenaed documents would just be immediately turned over to the press). So the House is forced to collect information in other ways like these closed door hearings.

[creekster]

I agree that it should be pristine, and it seems to be, despite all the protestations and stunts from Trump and his followers. But that is Trump's MO. I continue to be amazed that seemingly sane people follow this guy. I guess they are actually insane.

I suspect the processes used to solicit testimony are likely protected, probably more so than in a typical grand jury. But making it public seems to make things better. Transparency is not just good for the other guy.

[SeattleUte]

The grand jury is the house, not the committee. The entire house has to approve charges.

The committee is the prosecutor?

[creekster]

Another point is that the Trump administration has thus far refused to participate in the investigation by refusing to respond to subpoenas, etc. Those efforts would likely result in non-public information as well (I doubt the subpoenaed documents would just be immediately turned over to the press). So the House is forced to collect information in other ways like these closed door hearings.

BUt they do this all the time. In camera hearings where necessary, public where ti is not necessary. Insisting on total privacy makes it easier for Trump to sit it out than would public hearings.

[creekster]

The committee is the prosecutor?

Probably, but the analogy gets a little fuzzy at times. It works responding to the complaints about Due Process, but not everywhere else. It would feel a lot better if the House had charged the committees to investigate.

[SeattleUte]

Probably, but the analogy gets a little fuzzy at times. It works responding to the complaints about Due Process, but not everywhere else. It would feel a lot better if the House had charged the committees to investigate.

The point is that they can do this legally. Republicans need to quit the posturing and get real.

[creekster]

The point is that they can do this legally. Republicans need to quit the posturing and get real.

Legally? Sure, but this isn't about the law, it is about politics. The 'optics' would be much better if as much as possible was public. The posturing is on both sides right now, it seems to me (allowing that there might be a good reason to have private hearings, I just haven't heard one yet).

[Commando]

I agree that the republican grandstanding about due process is silly. But I am not sure why they aren't public hearings/depositions.

The depositions are a vetting process to get the information that would be used in any articles of impeachment. The president doesn't have the right to 'defend himself' during a deposition, nor does the public need to be privy to the goings on in the deposition. It's not adversarial, it's information gathering. They purposely make it an environment where confidentiality and certainly classified information is protected, candor to the committee is fostered, and it is as clinical and efficient of a process as possible, as opposed to letting it devolve into a circus, like Republicans tried their best to do today.